Episode #297
Why Effective Learning Needs Conflict and Consequences with Moe Ash
Drop us a message! We'd love to hear from you. When it’s too utopian, people get bored. The best training doesn't hand you the right answer. It makes you sit with the consequences of getting it wrong. In this episode, host Matt Pierce sits down with Moe Ash, founder of The Catalyst, an instructional design consultancy, to talk about how real consequences, not perfect answers, are what make training actually work. They explore the story structures Moe uses to build training that sticks, why realistic trade-offs beat ‘correct answer’ thinking, and why punishing mistakes can do more harm than good. Moe also breaks down why relatable, flawed characters make for better learning than perfect ones. Learning points from the episode include: Moe builds learning experiences around four classic story forms: Defeating Evil, Rags to Riches, The Quest, and Rebirth, each suited to a different kind of training challenge. Before building any story, Moe starts by asking for "a day in the life" the specific words, jargon, and moments that make a scenario feel real, rather than staged for the sake of the training. Punishing wrong answers without feedback doesn't teach people; it just encourages them to play the system. Moe's approach is rapid feedback, a hint, and room to try again. Important links and mentions: Connect with Moe Ash on LinkedIn The Catalyst (Moe's instructional design consultancy)
