
Episode #272
Techniques Interventional Radiologists Use to Stop Deadly Bleeding Without Ever Making an Incision- Dr. John Pavlus
Bleeding is what kills people after injury. In this companion conversation to their earlier episode, host and vascular surgeon Dr. Wayne Causey asks Dr. John Pavlus, Chief of Interventional Radiology at Brooke Army Medical Center, to do the thing most medical conversations skip. He walks step by step through exactly how a bleeding trauma patient is treated without major surgery. The tools are small. A needle, a short hollow tube called a sheath placed in the artery at the groin, wires thinner than a strand of spaghetti, and catheters steered by live X-ray to the one vessel that is leaking. The patient leaves with a bandage instead of an incision. The decisions behind those tools are what make the difference. It starts with the CT scan. Contrast is injected and images are captured at three different moments, and the timing of those pictures decides what the doctor believes he is looking at. A scan done for a different purpose at an outside hospital can make a patient look like an arterial bleeder when the bleeding is coming from a vein instead, and veins are not something a catheter can easily fix. Getting the timing right is the difference between the right treatment and the wrong one. From there the conversation turns to the system. At Brooke Army Medical Center, a trauma activation commits the interventional team to having a needle in the artery within sixty minutes of the call, at any hour. That standard was not bought with equipment. It was built on years of trust with the trauma surgeons, to the point that when a trauma surgeon calls a bleed, nobody argues about the pictures. Everyone moves, including anesthesia. Then come the organs. The liver is complicated because it carries two separate blood supplies, and one of them cannot be reached easily from the inside. The spleen is the favorite, shut down with a metal coil placed at a precise landmark, sometimes in fifteen minutes. And the conversation closes on thrombin, a clotting agent injected through the skin under ultrasound, no X-ray required. It is cheap, it is simple, and it is the one tool a military interventional radiologist would want in his pack if told to deploy tomorrow. The thread running through all of it is not equipment. It is repetition. Do the same thing the same way every time, and the mind is free to solve the problem that actually matters. Chapters (01:12-07:15) What Endovascular Care Actually Is and What the CT Scan Shows (07:15-12:23) The Sixty-Minute Clock and Activating the Trauma Interventional Radiology Pathway (12:23-20:49) A Bleeding Liver with Two Blood Supplies and Why Access Comes First (20:49-28:59) A Bleeding Spleen with Microcatheters Coils and Knowing When Good Enough Is Enough (28:59-35:51) Thrombin and the Simple Tool Worth Carrying Far Forward Chapter Summaries (01:12-07:15) What Endovascular Care Actually Is and What the CT Scan Shows Dr. Pavlus defines his specialty in the plain language he uses with patients. Minimally invasive, image guided procedures done through pinholes in the skin, either plugging up an artery that is bleeding or lining the inside of an injured one with a small tube. The discussion then turns to the CT scan, where contrast dye is imaged at three separate moments, and how the timing of those pictures determines whether the bleeding is arterial, venous, or a contained pocket of blood called a pseudoaneurysm. (07:15-12:23) The Sixty Minute Clock and Activating the Trauma Interventional Radiology Pathway A trauma surgeon standing at the scanner calls a bleed and the pathway fires. A single alert reaches the interventional radiologist, the nurse, the technologist, and the resident at the same time, and everyone drives in. The standard is a needle in the artery within sixty minutes of the call, and the guest is direct that the only way to hold that standard is to remove every point of debate from the process. Anesthesia is activated at the same moment, because these patients are rarely stable enough for anything less. (12:23-20:49) A Bleeding Liver with Two Blood Supplies and Why Access Comes First The liver is harder than most people assume because it carries two separate incoming blood supplies, and the second one cannot be reached quickly from inside a catheter. That is why a certain grade of liver injury belongs in the operating room with a surgeon rather than in the radiology suite. The guest then walks through his access routine in detail, from ultrasound guided puncture of the artery at the groin to the specific wire and catheter he uses every single time, and explains why keeping the hole in the artery as small as possible matters in a patient who may receive thirty units of blood. (20:49-28:59) A Bleeding Spleen with Microcatheters Coils and Knowing When Good Enough Is Enough Splenic bleeding can be shut down with a metal coil placed at a precise landmark between two small pancreatic arteries. Dr. Pavlus explains why he abandoned one widely used technique after it tore an artery early in his career, and why he now threads a much smaller catheter inside his working catheter to reach the target safely. He is also candid that in an unstable patient at two in the morning, the goal is not a perfect result. It is a live patient who can be handed back to the trauma team. (28:59-35:51) Thrombin and the Simple Tool Worth Carrying Far Forward Thrombin is a clotting agent injected directly through the skin with a needle, guided by ultrasound rather than X-ray. It is the standard repair for a pseudoaneurysm in the groin, but the guest has extended it to bleeding inside solid organs and small vessels in soft tissue that would be difficult or impossible to reach with a catheter. Because it requires no X-ray suite and almost no equipment, he names it as the single technique he would most want available in a far forward combat setting. The episode closes on consistency, repetition, and adapting a fixed base technique to whatever the patient in front of you presents. Take Home Messages Timing of the Contrast Changes the Answer: A CT scan is not one picture. Contrast dye is imaged before it arrives, as it fills the arteries, and again after it has spread, and comparing those three moments is what separates arterial bleeding from venous bleeding from an old finding that was never bleeding at all. A scan ordered for a different purpose at an outside hospital can point a team toward the wrong treatment entirely. Trust Is Built Long Before the Emergency: The sixty minute standard from phone call to needle in the artery is not achieved with faster equipment. It is achieved by removing every point of debate from the pathway, which only happens after years of a trauma service and a radiology service learning to rely on each other. When the trauma surgeon calls a bleed, nobody re-argues the pictures. Everyone moves. Access Is the Whole Game: You can perform the most elegant procedure in the world inside a patient, and if the puncture in the artery is mishandled, that is the only part anyone will remember. Ultrasound guidance takes no meaningful extra time, and keeping the opening as small as possible protects a patient who may go on to receive massive amounts of blood. Perfect Is the Enemy of Alive: In a stable patient with a low grade injury there is time to chase an ideal result. In a crashing patient at two in the morning there is not. Placing a coil in a good enough position and stopping high flow bleeding so the trauma team can move on is a legitimate and often correct decision, and knowing which situation you are in is a clinical skill of its own. The Simplest Tool May Be the Most Deployable: Thrombin injection needs a needle, an ultrasound probe, and a vial. No X-ray suite, no power injector, no shelf of catheters. That is exactly why it stands out as the technique most likely to work far forward, where the equipment, the imaging, and the logistics that a modern hospital takes for granted simply are not there. Episode Keywords interventional radiology, military medicine, trauma interventional radiology, embolization, splenic artery embolization, liver embolization, solid organ injury, thrombin injection, pseudoaneurysm repair, endovascular hemorrhage control, non compressible torso hemorrhage, angiography, microcatheter, coil embolization, Brooke Army Medical Center, combat casualty care, far forward surgical care, vascular surgery, WarDocs podcast, military trauma care, hemorrhage control, John Pavlus, Wayne Causey Hashtags #MilitaryMedicine, #InterventionalRadiology, #TraumaCare, #HemorrhageControl, #CombatCasualtyCare, #VascularSurgery, #WarDocs, #MilitaryHealth Honoring the Legacy and Preserving the History of Military Medicine The WarDocs Mission- WarDocs exists to honor the legacy of Military Medicine, preserve its history, and inspire every generation — across all Services, Corps, and Ranks — to serve with excellence and pride. 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