The Pursuit of Beauty with Matthew Wilkinson

We explore topics such as classical music, Orthodox chant, Bach, Messiaen, architecture, symbolism, the philosophy of mind, aesthetics, and the general pursuit of Beauty.

The Pursuit of Beauty with Matthew Wilkinson is a music podcast hosted by Matthew Wilkinson, with 51 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80. PitchCentric scores this show on Booking Probability, Listen Score, and live audience signals refreshed every 24 hours.

Matthew Wilkinson hosts The Pursuit of Beauty with Matthew Wilkinson, a music show with 51 episodes published.

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  Episode #2

  How Old is Coptic Chant, Really? Dr. Michael Henein

  Aug 16, 20261h 31mS2

  Is Coptic chant really 3,000 years old? Dr. Michael Henein set out to prove it — and his own experiment said no.Coptic Orthodox chant is often described as the last living echo of ancient Egyptian music, sung continuously since the time of the Pharaohs. Dr. Michael Henein decided to test that claim. With permission from the Cairo Museum, he had replicas made of ancient Egyptian flutes and asked a musician to play the responses of the Liturgy of St. Basil on them. The oldest flute produced exactly the scale the liturgy uses. It looked like proof — until he added a control group.In this conversation we go deep into how Coptic chant actually works: the maqam system underneath it, why the melodies function as icons rather than compositions, the century-long effort to notate an oral tradition that had never been written down, and what happened when thirteen shared Greek-texted responses were sung side by side by Coptic and Greek Orthodox cantors.Dr. Michael Henein is Professor of Cardiology at Imperial College London, the University of Siena, and the University of Nicosia; a sub-deacon at St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church, London; founder and director of the St. Kiril Coptic European Choir; and Executive Vice-Chancellor of the European Academy of Coptic Heritage.0:00 Every flute gave the same answer2:02 Meet Dr. Michael Henein2:39 From Handel's Messiah to a Coptic choir9:43 Greek words, Coptic melodies13:42 Why the whole congregation sings18:58 Instruments, the takht, and the liturgy20:39 Polyphony, Komitas, and hymns vs. songs28:41 Melody as icon: why nothing may change32:32 Inside the maqam: Huzam, Nahawand, and the ajnas40:45 Notating an oral tradition: Newlandsmith, Moftah, Tóth52:50 How old is Coptic chant, really?1:00:25 The flute experiment1:06:47 Which layers of the liturgy are oldest?1:10:46 Coptic and Greek: thirteen responses compared1:15:14 Ethiopian and Syriac parallels1:16:35 Cymbals, triangle, and rhythm1:20:12 What makes Coptic music unique1:27:04 Osama Fathi and the cadences that break the rules

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  Episode #1

  The Future of American Catholic Architecture | Duncan Stroik

  Aug 7, 20261h 34mS2

  Notre Dame architecture professor Duncan Stroik on why modern churches fail — and how to build sacred ones again.Stroik is the designer of Christ Chapel at Hillsdale College and the chapel at Thomas Aquinas College. In this interview he traces Catholic church architecture from the earliest basilicas to the traditional parish churches going up across America right now. If you've ever walked into a church that felt like an airplane hangar and wondered how we got here, this conversation is the answer.We start with what Catholic and Orthodox churches once shared: the rood screen and the iconostasis. Before the Renaissance, both East and West screened the altar — and Stroik walks through Torcello, San Marco in Venice, the stone screens of Naumburg Cathedral, and the screen still standing inside the Sistine Chapel to show how the West tore its screens out while the East made its own solid. Along the way: the ciborium and its curtains, the veil of the temple, and why recovering mystery may be the future of church design.Then the old fight: Gothic vs. classical architecture. Stroik has little patience for Pugin's claim that Gothic is the only Christian style — "somehow for 1,000, 1,200 years we didn't build in a Christian style, but suddenly they did" — and argues a Catholic architect must inherit all of it: Romanesque, Byzantine, Renaissance, Baroque. On modernist church architecture he is blunter: essentially iconoclastic, with no place in Catholic building. He also weighs in on the repainting of Chartres, the restoration of Notre-Dame de Paris, and Sacré-Cœur as Byzantine architecture in the West.On church restoration, his advice is concrete: spend the money on the sanctuary first — altar, tabernacle, flooring, altar rail — because the building teaches whether you meant it to or not. He describes the Cathedral of St. Joseph in Sioux Falls, the paint schemes that turned over every 25 years, and the 1975 low point when whole interiors went beige.And because a church is more than a building, we talk sacred music: Anglican Evensong and the Daily Office, why Germany fills organ recitals while America doesn't, French vs. German organ improvisation, and Stroik's own work designing organ cases. The interview closes with the Raffaella Ballet, commissioned in memory of his daughter, and her motto from Dostoevsky: beauty will save the world.Gothic or classical — where do you land? Say why in the comments. And subscribe for more long-form conversations on sacred architecture, liturgy, and church music.#SacredArchitecture #ChurchArchitecture #CatholicChurch #DuncanStroikCHAPTERS0:00 Hook2:42 Introduction3:14 Anglican Evensong and the Daily Office7:30 Columns, arches, and domes: Andrew Gould's question10:26 Rood screens and iconostasis: what East and West shared (Torcello)11:21 Sistine Chapel's forgotten screen — and the screens of Venice12:51 The veil of the temple: thresholds and the Holy of Holies16:54 Altar curtains, the ciborium, and the schola cantorum19:55 St. Francis at Greccio: the Franciscan paradox22:11 Sacrament houses: Nuremberg's giant tabernacle24:35 Why the choir moved behind29:43 Naumburg Cathedral's surviving stone screens32:14 Stained glass in America 38:24 Gothic vs. classical: Pugin, Ruskin, and Baltimore Cathedral42:35 Notre Dame's classical architecture47:20 Church paint schemes 51:13 Gothic darkness vs. Renaissance light53:14 The Chartres Cathedral repainting54:41 What Gothic architecture gave the Renaissance59:55 The confessional: a Borromeo invention1:01:39 Sacré-Cœur1:02:51 Church restoration1:07:31 Does traditional architecture cost more?1:09:29 America leads — Latin America and Africa 1:11:31 A Nigerian bishop, and churches that don't survive1:14:28 Organ culture: why Germany fills recitals1:17:15 French vs. German organ improvisation1:23:44 Organ case design1:27:22 New churches that give him hope1:30:05 The Raffaella Ballet1:33:45 "Beauty will save the world"

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  Episode #50

  Herman Middleton on the Protecting Veil, Orthodoxy, Technology, and the Future

  Jun 24, 20261h 1mS1

  Herman Middleton joins me to discuss Orthodox Christianity, C.S. Lewis, the modern crisis of what it means to be human, Artificial Intelligcen, and the strange ways technology reshapes our souls, our communities, and even our understanding of salvation. Herman is the founder of The Protecting Veil and Gadfly Academy, and his work brings together Orthodox theology, patristic wisdom, media ecology, and a deep critique of the modern machine-shaped world.We explore Herman’s own conversion from high-church Anglicanism and evangelical circles into the Orthodox Church. He shares how Dostoevsky’s Brothers Karamazov, the beauty of Orthodox worship, Byzantine chant, and the early Church Fathers helped him realize that the Christian faith cannot be separated from the Church that preserved the Scriptures, the councils, the saints, and the living tradition of Christian worship.Herman discusses his doctoral dissertation on the theological anthropology and cosmology of C.S. Lewis, including Lewis’s vision of the human person, the importance of the Incarnation, the prophetic power of The Abolition of Man and That Hideous Strength, and why so many Orthodox converts have found Lewis to be a gateway into deeper Christian tradition.We also talk about the question at the heart of the modern world: Are human beings special, or are we merely biological machines to be upgraded, optimized, and eventually replaced? This leads into a discussion of transhumanism, artificial intelligence, technology, efficiency, the image of God, and the difference between human values and machine values. Herman argues that much of our cultural confusion comes from the fact that we no longer know what a human being is.Finally, Herman explains the mission behind Gadfly Academy, his interest in writers like Wendell Berry, Neil Postman, Marshall McLuhan, Walter Ong, Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich, Philip Sherrard, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Paul Kingsnorth, Christopher Alexander, Jane Jacobs, and others who have critiqued the modern technological world. We discuss media ecology, television, the printing press, the telegraph, the internet, anti-machine thinking, and how modern technology changes not only what we do, but what we are.Chapters02:30 Introducing Herman Middleton02:39 Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit06:50 How Orthodox language differs from Protestant language09:42 Herman’s journey from Anglicanism to Orthodoxy11:18 Dostoevsky, Elder Zosima, and encountering true Christianity12:45 Beauty, Byzantine chant, and Orthodox worship15:30 Studying theology in Thessaloniki16:39 Herman’s doctoral work on C.S. Lewis17:46 C.S. Lewis, anthropology, cosmology, and Orthodoxy20:27 Human values versus machine values21:00 Community, beauty, goodness, truth, love, and trust22:16 What C.S. Lewis gets right from an Orthodox perspective24:17 The Incarnation, salvation, and Narnia25:22 C.S. Lewis and St. Athanasius’ On the Incarnation27:56 That Hideous Strength and Lewis’s prophetic vision30:05 C.S. Lewis and Dostoevsky as “gateway drugs” to Orthodoxy30:52 Wendell Berry as America’s answer to C.S. Lewis34:28 Interviewing Vladimir Pleshakov36:40 What is The Protecting Veil?37:00 The miracle of the Theotokos’ protecting veil40:42 Fr. Thomas Hopko, Fr. Stephen Freeman, and early YouTube interviews43:25 Ancient Faith, monasteries, St. Vladimir’s, and Orthodox voices44:35 Interviewing Orthodox poets, bishops, and theologians47:36 The difficulty of making a living as a creator48:19 Why Herman started Gadfly Academy50:05 Technology, society, and the Orthodox spiritual life53:20 Media ecology, Neil Postman, and Marshall McLuhan54:25 How technology creates a new world56:00 The telegraph, the internet, and the speed of information59:13 Gadfly Academy’s “How Did We Get Here?” reading list59:38 Wendell Berry, Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich, and anti-machine writers1:00:20 Recovering a human and spiritual life in the modern world

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  Episode #49

  Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Chant with Aram Kerovpyan

  Jun 11, 20261h 54mS1

  Armenian chant, Armenian church music, and the ancient sacred music of the Armenian Apostolic Church are at the center of this conversation with master singer and musicologist, Aram Kerovpyan, one of the world’s leading voices on Armenian liturgical chant. Recommended to me by Tigran Hamasyan, Aram speaks with rare honesty about the survival, decline, and possible renewal of Armenian sacred music, from the modal chant tradition to the impact of genocide, Westernization, the organ, polyphonic choirs, Komitas, and the disappearing role of the master singer.This is a conversation about much more than music. It is about memory, worship, trauma, transmission, and whether a sacred tradition can survive once the living chain of singers has been broken. Aram explains why Armenian chant cannot be reduced to notes on a page, why equal temperament changes the spiritual and musical character of chant, and why true modal music must be felt in the body before it can be understood intellectually.We discuss the controversial place of the organ in Armenian church music, and Aram does not soften his opinion. For him, the organ does not merely accompany Armenian chant. It changes the nature of the music itself. This leads into a larger discussion of Orientalism, Westernization, and the assumption that ancient modal traditions need to be “improved” through harmony, polyphony, or European musical categories.Aram also reflects on the tragedy of Armenian history and the devastating cultural consequences of the Armenian Genocide. When monasteries, churches, communities, singers, manuscripts, and oral traditions are destroyed, the question is no longer simply “what did Armenian chant sound like?” but whether the world that produced that sound can ever fully be recovered.We also talk about Komitas, one of the most important and beloved figures in Armenian music. Aram offers a nuanced view of Komitas as a collector, composer, musicologist, and cultural icon, while also asking difficult questions about harmonization, Europeanization, trauma, and myth. Did Komitas save Armenian music? Did he transform it? Can both things be true?Other topics include Armenian modal music, the Armenian Octoechos, drones, natural intervals, Limonjian notation, khaz notation, the difference between oral and written transmission, the role of the master singer, the decline of traditional chant education, regional variants in Armenian chant, Gregory of Narek, the Book of Lamentations, and what it would actually take to preserve this sacred tradition for future generations.This is one of the most profound conversations I have had about Christian sacred music, not because it gives easy answers, but because it forces us to ask what we are willing to lose in the name of progress, beauty, convenience, or “civilization.” Armenian chant is not simply an old musical style. It is a way of praying, remembering, listening, and inhabiting a Christian tradition that has survived almost unimaginable suffering.

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  Episode #48

  where Japanese art and Medieval manuscripts collide | Daniel Mitsui

  May 27, 20261h 49mS1

  In this conversation, I speak with artist Daniel Mitsui about sacred art, medieval manuscripts, Gothic symbolism, calligraphy, typography, Japanese woodblock prints, relics, pilgrimage, and the lost visual imagination of Christian civilization. Mitsui is a professional artist known for extraordinarily detailed religious ink drawings that continue the traditions of medieval Gothic art while also drawing from Celtic, Persian, and Japanese influences.Daniel's website: https://www.danielmitsui.com/ We discuss what makes Gothic art different from modern religious art, why illuminated manuscripts and Books of Hours became such powerful devotional objects, and how medieval artists filled the world with symbolic order. Daniel explains his use of calfskin, goatskin, ink, calligraphy, ornament, and traditional materials, as well as the way his work attempts to recover a visual language rooted in the Christian imagination.The conversation also moves into the strange and fascinating history of printmaking. Daniel tells the story of pilgrim mirrors, medieval relics, and the surprising connection between pilgrimage, sacred images, and Gutenberg’s printing press. He explains how the printing press can be understood as conceptually related to the medieval desire to carry home contact with a holy original. We also talk about typography, blackletter, Lombardic capitals, Hildegard of Bingen’s unknown language, Tolkien, Coptic letters, Spencerian handwriting, and Daniel’s own typefaces. Along the way, we explore why letters are not merely functional marks on a page, but can become works of beauty, symbolism, and devotion.Later in the conversation, Daniel explains the Japanese influence in his work, especially ukiyo-e woodblock prints, samurai imagery, St. Michael, Kuniyoshi, Hiroshige, Yoshitoshi, and the way Japanese art taught him new ways to compose figures without relying on shadows. This is a conversation about sacred art, but also about much more: the recovery of beauty, the meaning of symbolism, the relationship between tradition and originality, and whether modern people can learn to see again.📩 Subscribe to the Pursuit of Beauty Substack: https://substack.com/@UCPo3842Pl_Z3Xqo9GYACUzw 🔔 Subscribe and hit the bell so you don't miss new episodesmy website: https://matthewwilkinson.net/my Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/MatthewWilkinsonMusic00:00 Pilgrim Mirrors, Relics, and the Origins of Printing03:11 Introducing Daniel Mitsui03:34 Medieval Art, Sacred Detail, and Gothic Tradition06:38 Why 15th-Century Manuscripts Matter08:41 Ink, Gold Leaf, Tempera, and Medieval Materials11:08 Calfskin, Goatskin, Bristol Board, and Vellum15:58 Calligraphy, Childhood, and Learning Letterforms17:31 The Paradexion Tree18:13 Drawing Letters Instead of Writing Them19:16 Altar Cards, Latin Mass, and Designing a Typeface23:14 Benedict: Daniel Mitsui’s First Typeface26:34 Lombardic Capitals and Medieval Display Letters29:34 Tolkien, Bastarda Script, and Medieval Italics32:48 Millefleur, The Lady and the Unicorn, and Symbolic Ornament38:54 Becoming a Full-Time Artist39:58 Serif, Sans Serif, and the Meaning of Letterforms47:09 Coptic Letters and Ancient Scripts49:09 Hildegard of Bingen’s Unknown Language53:16 The Dream of a Daniel Mitsui Book of Hours57:19 Originals, Prints, Reproductions, and Sacred Art1:03:43 Gutenberg, Relics, and Pilgrim Mirrors1:08:48 Spencerian Penmanship and Fanciful Letters1:10:57 Japanese Art, Ukiyo-e, and St. Michael as Samurai1:15:33 How Japanese Art Changed His Christian Art1:18:28 Seeing Without Shadows1:22:37 Celtic Art, The Book of Kells, and Insular Manuscripts1:31:27 Celtic Influence in Daniel’s Work1:33:22 Christ in Majesty, Blood, and the Tetramorph1:36:36 King of Kings and Lord of Lords1:37:54 AI Art, Handmade Art, and the Future of Artists1:47:15 Persian Influence and Mixing Artistic Traditions1:49:03 Closing

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