The Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors

Launched in 2017 as Mindy Diamond on Independence, the show has taken on a broader perspective beyond the independent space to include topics, insights, and candid conversations around financial advisor transitions, growth, and an ever-changing industry landscape. Each episode is designed to offer objective guidance and actionable advice with some of the industry’s brightest movers and shakers.

The Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors is a business podcast hosted by Unknown Host, with 300 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80. PitchCentric scores this show on Booking Probability, Listen Score, and live audience signals refreshed every 24 hours.

Unknown Host hosts The Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors, a business show with 300 episodes published.

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  Episode #374

  Vanguard Acquires Altruist: What It Means for Advisors and the Industry

  Aug 27, 202625 minS1

  With Louis Diamond Vanguard’s acquisition of Altruist could reshape RIA custody, bringing together Altruist’s technology with the scale, capital, and reputation of one of the industry’s best-known brands. In Summary Vanguard’s acquisition of Altruist brings one of the financial industry’s most established brands together with one of RIA custody’s fastest-growing challengers. In this Rapid Reaction Industry Update, Louis Diamond looks beyond the reported $4B+ purchase price to consider what the combination could mean for advisors—what he sees as the good news, the potentially negative outcomes, and everything in between. Altruist gains the capital, scale, and brand recognition that could help it compete more aggressively for larger RIAs and breakaway teams. Vanguard gains a technology-forward custody platform and greater access to the independent advisor channel. The larger implication may be increased competition across RIA custody. With Schwab and Fidelity controlling much of the market, a Vanguard-backed Altruist could create new pressure around technology, pricing, service, referrals, and innovation—while raising new questions about how Vanguard balances its growing advice business with its role as custodian. The Storyline RIA custody has long been dominated by Schwab and Fidelity, particularly since Schwab’s acquisition of TD Ameritrade. Altruist emerged as one of the few credible challengers, building its position around modern technology, lower costs, and an advisor-focused platform. But technology was only part of the equation. For larger breakaway teams in particular, Altruist faced another hurdle: brand recognition. Advisors could be impressed by the platform while still wondering how clients accustomed to names like Merrill, UBS, Morgan Stanley, Schwab, or Fidelity would respond to an unfamiliar custodian. Vanguard changes that equation. Louis examines why the acquisition makes strategic sense for both companies, from Vanguard’s push to expand access to financial advice to Altruist’s opportunity to operate with the backing of a well-capitalized, long-term owner. For advisors, however, the bigger story is what happens next. A stronger competitor in custody could affect everything from technology and pricing to referral opportunities and the choices available to breakaway advisors. There are also important questions still unanswered. Vanguard operates its own advice businesses. Altruist’s speed and fintech culture may be tested inside a much larger organization. And while Vanguard says Altruist will remain independent, the longer-term operating model remains to be seen. The deal may not change advisors’ options immediately. But it has the potential to change the competitive dynamics surrounding those options considerably. Topics Covered Vanguard’s acquisition of Altruist RIA custody competition Schwab and Fidelity Altruist’s technology and Hazel AI Vanguard’s financial advice strategy Custodian brand recognition for breakaway advisors Advisor referral networks Custody and technology pricing Direct advice and custodian conflicts The future of RIA platforms and Supportive Independence > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why is the Vanguard-Altruist acquisition significant for RIA custody? (03:53) Louis explains why custody has remained highly concentrated around Schwab and Fidelity and how combining Vanguard’s scale and reputation with Altruist’s technology could create a much stronger third competitor. What problem does Vanguard potentially solve for Altruist? (05:01) Altruist has built a strong reputation among advisors for its technology, but larger breakaway teams have sometimes questioned whether clients would recognize or trust the brand. Vanguard could significantly reduce that concern. Why does buying Altruist make sense for Vanguard? (07:00) Vanguard has more than 50 million investors and has publicly discussed the need to expand access to financial advice. Louis considers how Altruist could give Vanguard both additional capacity and a stronger connection to independent advisors. What does Altruist gain from Vanguard beyond capital? (09:51) Louis discusses the significance of having a long-term, investor-owned parent rather than remaining dependent on successive rounds of venture capital, while gaining additional resources to develop custody, technology, and Hazel AI. How could this acquisition change the choices available to breakaway advisors? (12:33) The combination of Altruist’s technology with Vanguard’s brand could make the platform more viable for larger teams that previously hesitated because of client recognition and trust concerns. Could Vanguard become a meaningful source of client referrals to RIAs? (13:42) With millions of existing investors and more demand for advice than Vanguard can necessarily serve internally, Louis considers whether a future referral program connecting Vanguard clients with Altruist RIAs could become an important competitive advantage. What are the potential risks of the Vanguard-Altruist combination? (16:54) The acquisition also raises questions around Vanguard’s competing advice business, Altruist’s long-term independence, differences in corporate culture, innovation speed, and talent retention. What could happen next across the custody market? (20:00) Louis offers several predictions, including responses from Schwab and Fidelity, wider adoption of Hazel AI, a potential Vanguard-Altruist referral channel, and greater use of Altruist by breakaway advisors. Key Takeaways Vanguard’s acquisition of Altruist could introduce a more formidable competitor into an RIA custody market heavily concentrated around Schwab and Fidelity. Vanguard addresses one of Altruist’s biggest challenges with larger breakaway teams: providing a widely recognized financial brand that advisors can more easily explain to clients. Altruist gives Vanguard a technology-forward entry point into RIA custody as Vanguard continues expanding its strategy around access to financial advice. Advisors could benefit from greater competition through pressure on custody and technology pricing, service, product development, and innovation. A future referral channel could become an important part of the combination, particularly given Vanguard’s enormous investor base and Altruist’s growing network of RIAs. The acquisition also introduces potential conflicts and execution risks, including Vanguard’s own advice businesses, the integration of two very different corporate cultures, and questions about whether Altruist can maintain its speed and independence over time. For breakaway advisors, the custody shortlist may have changed: Altruist can now pair its technology and fintech capabilities with the capital and reputation of Vanguard. https://youtu.be/UlgCBjLXrnw Quotable Moments “Custody is really a trust business.” — Louis Diamond (05:55) “Every time a well-capitalized player shows up, especially in custody, advisors win.” — Louis Diamond (12:33) “Really, it’s tech-forward independence now without a brand trade-off.” — Louis Diamond (13:42) “There are always innovators showing up from outside the establishment, and every time one succeeds, advisors end up with more options and more leverage and more negotiating power than they had the year before.” — Louis Diamond (22:44) FAQs Why is Vanguard acquiring Altruist? Louis sees several strategic reasons for the acquisition. Altruist gives Vanguard an established technology and custody platform serving more than 6,000 advisors, while potentially expanding Vanguard’s ability to reach investors through independent financial advisors. It may also provide another distribution channel for Vanguard investment products and future offerings. What does Vanguard’s acquisition mean for Altruist? Altruist gains the backing of one of the world’s largest and best-known investment firms while retaining, at least initially, its brand, leadership, and operating structure. Vanguard’s capital could allow Altruist to continue investing in custody capabilities, technology, and products such as Hazel AI without relying on additional venture funding rounds. How could the acquisition affect RIA custody competition? Schwab and Fidelity currently dominate RIA custody. Louis believes a Vanguard-backed Altruist could become a stronger challenger by combining Altruist’s technology and pricing model with Vanguard’s scale, capital, and reputation. That could increase competitive pressure around pricing, service, technology, and innovation. Why could the deal matter to breakaway advisors? Altruist’s technology has attracted advisor interest, but some larger breakaway teams have questioned whether clients would be comfortable holding substantial wealth with a less familiar custodian. Vanguard’s ownership could substantially reduce that brand-recognition hurdle and make Altruist a more viable option for larger teams. Could Vanguard refer clients to advisors using Altruist? No referral program has been announced. However, Louis believes it is an important possibility to watch. Vanguard has more than 50 million investors, while Altruist provides access to thousands of independent advisors. Connecting investors seeking human advice with RIAs on the Altruist platform could create a meaningful new referral channel. Are there risks for advisors using a Vanguard-owned custodian? Potentially. Vanguard operates its own financial advice businesses, creating some of the same competitive concerns advisors have raised about other custodians with retail advice operations. Other questions include whether Altruist will remain operationally independent over time and whether its culture and pace of innovation can be maintained under Vanguard ownership. What happens next for Altruist, Schwab, and Fidelity? Louis expects the competitive response to be worth watching. He believes Schwab and Fidelity could respond through technology, AI, pricing, or other changes to their advisor offerings. He also expects Altruist to compete more aggressively for breakaway teams and sees the potential for Hazel AI to expand well beyond advisors who custody assets with Altruist. Does the Vanguard-Altruist deal change anything for advisors immediately? Not necessarily. The transaction still needs to close, and its longer-term impact will take time to emerge. But for advisors evaluating custodians, independence, or the value they receive from existing partners, the acquisition adds another factor to consider as the competitive landscape evolves. Louis sees several strategic reasons for the acquisition. Altruist gives Vanguard an established technology and custody platform serving more than 6,000 advisors, while potentially expanding Vanguard’s ability to reach investors through independent financial advisors. It may also provide another distribution channel for Vanguard investment products and future offerings. Altruist gains the backing of one of the world’s largest and best-known investment firms while retaining, at least initially, its brand, leadership, and operating structure. Vanguard’s capital could allow Altruist to continue investing in custody capabilities, technology, and products such as Hazel AI without relying on additional venture funding rounds. Schwab and Fidelity currently dominate RIA custody. Louis believes a Vanguard-backed Altruist could become a stronger challenger by combining Altruist’s technology and pricing model with Vanguard’s scale, capital, and reputation. That could increase competitive pressure around pricing, service, technology, and innovation. Altruist’s technology has attracted advisor interest, but some larger breakaway teams have questioned whether clients would be comfortable holding substantial wealth with a less familiar custodian. Vanguard’s ownership could substantially reduce that brand-recognition hurdle and make Altruist a more viable option for larger teams. No referral program has been announced. However, Louis believes it is an important possibility to watch. Vanguard has more than 50 million investors, while Altruist provides access to thousands of independent advisors. Connecting investors seeking human advice with RIAs on the Altruist platform could create a meaningful new referral channel. Potentially. Vanguard operates its own financial advice businesses, creating some of the same competitive concerns advisors have raised about other custodians with retail advice operations. Other questions include whether Altruist will remain operationally independent over time and whether its culture and pace of innovation can be maintained under Vanguard ownership. Louis expects the competitive response to be worth watching. He believes Schwab and Fidelity could respond through technology, AI, pricing, or other changes to their advisor offerings. He also expects Altruist to compete more aggressively for breakaway teams and sees the potential for Hazel AI to expand well beyond advisors who custody assets with Altruist. Not necessarily. The transaction still needs to close, and its longer-term impact will take time to emerge. But for advisors evaluating custodians, independence, or the value they receive from existing partners, the acquisition adds another factor to consider as the competitive landscape evolves. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. Related Resources Rise and Reinvent: Joe Duran on Building and Rebuilding World-Class Firms From Insurance Sales to $8B RIA: A Northwestern Mutual Breakaway Story Diamond Consultants 4th Annual Advisor Transition Report View the transcript of this episode… Vanguard Acquires Altruist: What It Means for RIAs, Custody & Breakaway Advisors With Louis Diamond Louis Diamond ( 00:06 ): Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is a special rapid reaction industry update, Vanguard acquires Altruist, what it means for advisors in the industry. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is The Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond ( 00:28 ): At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. ( 01:21 ): Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Louis Diamond ( 02:05 ): Funny how the biggest news in the business almost never comes from the firms everyone is watching. On Wednesday, August 26th, 2026, Vanguard announced its acquiring Altruist. If you asked me a year ago to name the company most likely to buy an RIA custodian, Vanguard would not have been near the top of my list. Vanguard was in the RIA custody business once. They left in 2003 and handed roughly $120 billion of advisor assets to TD Ameritrade on the way out. 23 years later, they’re buying their way back in, reported $4 billion or more. So let’s talk about what happened, why it matters, and where I think it goes from here. ( 02:48 ): What happened? On August 26th, 2026, a definitive agreement was announced out of Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. A deal is closing later this year where Vanguard is acquiring Altruist, the relative upstart RIA custodian. The price, an undisclosed number, but a reported $4 billion, some outlets reporting $4.6 billion or more. Either way, more than double their last private market valuation at the end of April 2025. Another element is Altruist is staying as a standalone. They’ll keep their brand, CEO, management team, and operate the same model just as a wholly owned subsidiary of Vanguard. Altruist in one breath, for those unaware, was a custodian and fintech company founded in 2018 by Jason Wenk. They became a self-clearing custodian, third largest as far as number of advisors served, north of 6,000 advisors, and had a reputation for serving smaller or upstart advisors, but recently started getting into more of the larger market breakaway space. ( 03:53 ): One estimate I’ve seen peg’s Altruist market share of RIA custody at around 6%, but you compare that to about three quarters of the market for Schwab and Fidelity combined. So a relatively small player, but a rapidly emerging player and threat in US RIA custody. This is not the first time Vanguard has been involved with Altruist. They reportedly were an early investor in Altruist back in 2020 and former Vanguard CEO, Bill McNabb, has been on the board of Altruist, so a lot of history between the firms. Let’s get into now why I think this is interesting for the industry as a whole. In my view, custody has never really been all that competitive, especially since TD Ameritrade sold to Schwab. You really had an oligopoly between Schwab and Fidelity. Sure, there’s a number of compelling, say more boutique custodians, whether Pershing Advisor Solutions, Goldman Sachs, which was another newer entrant to custody, LPL, Raymond James, First Clearing, and a number of others are also in the space, but it is a market that is dramatically dominated by the two largest players. ( 05:01 ): So I think this matters because you add an amazing venerable brand and reputation of Vanguard with this scrappy upstart custodian, and all of a sudden you can see a world where custody is one of the more competitive spaces in the industry. Altruist, in my view too, was one of the first credible challengers to the incumbent custodians in 20-ish years. Goldman has since picked up some decent market share and certainly they’re attractive for the segment of advisors. But Altruist with their tech-forward approach, low fees, and even just the way they went to market as an antagonist to Schwab and Fidelity, they’re a big deal and I think this just magnifies what they’re able to do. The gap though for Altruist was brand and reputation. Sure, they had amazing tech. No one ever has doubted that. Hazel AI, which they recently launched has been very well received. ( 05:55 ): Advisors I’ve worked with who have demoed the platform are incredibly impressed. The big Achilles heel though for Altruist has been my clients don’t know who Altruist is. Why would my clients put their millions of dollars of wealth with a self-clearing custodian that doesn’t have the same scale or reputation as the incumbent custodians? Well, that really goes away here. And at the end of the day, custody is really a trust business, but you’d have to think that a client would trust their assets held with Vanguard or with Altruist through Vanguard in a very similar way that they would trust assets held by Bank of New York Mellon or Charles Schwab or Fidelity Investments or Goldman Sachs. So to me, Vanguard acquiring Altruist solves that problem in one sentence, very simple. Why I think this makes sense for

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  Episode #373

  Growth Without Compromise: Building Around the Advisor Experience

  Aug 20, 202654 minS1

  Shannon Spotswood – CEO, RFG Advisory Choosing a platform isn’t just about technology or economics. It’s about finding a partner that helps you build the business you actually want to own. Shannon Spotswood explains why growth without compromise starts with choosing the right partner. In Summary What should advisors really look for in a platform partner? Jason Diamond sits down with Shannon Spotswood, CEO of RFG Advisory, to discuss why the best platforms do more than provide technology and operational support—they help advisors build stronger businesses. Shannon shares lessons from helping grow RFG into one of the industry’s leading supportive independence firms, covering everything from private equity partnerships and advisor experience to enterprise value, branding, and overcoming the fear that keeps many advisors from pursuing the business they truly want. The Storyline Most advisors evaluating independence compare technology, payouts, and service offerings. Shannon Spotswood believes they’re asking the wrong first question. After spending two decades in institutional investing and later helping to rebuild RFG Advisory from the ground up, Shannon has developed a philosophy centered on partnership. She argues that the best platforms function less like vendors and more like long-term business partners, helping advisors spend more time with clients, build enterprise value, and create businesses aligned with their vision rather than forcing compromises. Jason and Shannon discuss what meaningful support actually looks like, why the right private equity partner can accelerate growth rather than restrict it, and why advisors should demand evidence – not marketing promises – when evaluating a platform. The conversation also explores one of the industry’s biggest obstacles to change: fear. Shannon explains why outdated assumptions about transitioning firms continue to prevent advisors from building businesses they enjoy, even though data suggests the experience is often far less disruptive than many believe. Ultimately, the discussion reframes independence itself—not as the destination, but as the beginning of choosing the right long-term partners. Topics Covered Evaluating advisor platforms as long-term business partners Building an independent business without compromise Enterprise value and organic growth Private equity as a strategic growth partner Advisor experience and client experience Branding and authenticity in wealth management Overcoming fear and transition myths Technology, outsourcing, and operational leverage Leadership, succession, and organizational growth The future of supportive independence > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why should advisors think of a platform as a business partner? (10:00) Shannon explains why technology and service alone aren’t enough—and why the right partner should help advisors build the business they ultimately want to own. What does “growth without compromise” actually mean? (10:00–17:30) RFG’s philosophy centers on helping advisors focus on their highest-value work while surrounding them with integrated support designed to drive enterprise value. Can private equity make a firm better? (25:00) Rather than debating whether private equity is good or bad, Shannon explains why success depends on choosing a partner whose values and long-term vision align with yours. How should advisors evaluate competing platforms? (43:00) Her advice is simple: don’t rely on marketing. Speak with advisors already using the platform and ask firms to demonstrate – not simply promise – how they solve problems. Why does fear keep so many advisors from making a change? (48:30) Shannon discusses the “PTSD” many advisors carry from outdated transition stories and why today’s reality often looks very different. What does the future of advisor platforms look like? (34:00–42:00) The conversation explores advisor demand for greater personalization, stronger brands, AI-enabled efficiency, and partners that help advisors grow without sacrificing independence. Key Takeaways The best advisor platforms function as long-term strategic partners—not simply service providers. Enterprise value grows when advisors spend more time serving clients and less time managing operations. Private equity can be highly beneficial when partners share a common vision and respect management autonomy. Advisors should evaluate firms based on demonstrated execution rather than marketing claims. Fear remains one of the biggest barriers to advisor movement despite significant improvements in transition support. Authentic branding and deeper client relationships will become increasingly important as AI reshapes wealth management. https://youtu.be/jaSt3-mO0so Quotable Moments “The right partners make you better. The wrong ones can quietly hold you back.” “Don’t tell me. Show me.” “Everything you want is on the other side of fear.” “Your team deserves to be happy. You deserve to be happy.” FAQs What should advisors look for when evaluating an advisor platform? Shannon believes advisors should look beyond technology and economics and evaluate whether a platform acts like a true long-term business partner that helps them grow and build enterprise value. How does RFG define “growth without compromise”? By providing integrated support – from technology and compliance to marketing and coaching – that allows advisors to spend more time with clients while maintaining control of their businesses. Is private equity always good or bad for advisor firms? No. Shannon argues that success depends less on private equity itself and more on choosing partners who share the firm’s long-term vision and values. Why do advisors hesitate to make a move? Fear and outdated perceptions about transitions still influence decision-making, even though today’s transition experience is often much smoother than advisors expect. How should advisors compare competing platforms? Talk directly with affiliated advisors, ask for measurable evidence of results, and focus on how a platform responds to advisor feedback rather than marketing claims. How is AI changing advisor businesses? AI should enhance – not replace – the advisor relationship by creating operational efficiencies that allow advisors to spend more time delivering personalized advice. Shannon believes advisors should look beyond technology and economics and evaluate whether a platform acts like a true long-term business partner that helps them grow and build enterprise value. By providing integrated support – from technology and compliance to marketing and coaching – that allows advisors to spend more time with clients while maintaining control of their businesses. No. Shannon argues that success depends less on private equity itself and more on choosing partners who share the firm’s long-term vision and values. Fear and outdated perceptions about transitions still influence decision-making, even though today’s transition experience is often much smoother than advisors expect. Talk directly with affiliated advisors, ask for measurable evidence of results, and focus on how a platform responds to advisor feedback rather than marketing claims. AI should enhance – not replace – the advisor relationship by creating operational efficiencies that allow advisors to spend more time delivering personalized advice. Related Resources How to Evaluate a Firm Beyond the Obvious: A Framework for Advisors Why You Should Stay at Your Current Firm Shannon Spotswood CEO Shannon Spotswood is a 25+ year industry veteran with a tremendous amount of experience across both retail and institutional finance and an outstanding reputation built on her passionate leadership and ongoing success in investment banking, hedge fund portfolio management, business development and retail wealth management. Joining RFG in 2015, Shannon recognized the opportunity to channel her entrepreneurial experience and passion for service into leading a mission to create an Advisor-focused RIA of the Future delivering a supported independence platform that empowers Financial Advisors to build the businesses they want to have, without compromise. Shannon’s career has been characterized by her determination to build something bigger than herself. Having fallen in love with finance at only age 14, she was focused on making an impact in a male-dominated industry. After graduating from college, Shannon spent 20 years in San Francisco working in institutional finance. She began her career in investment banking and eventually achieved her dream job as a Portfolio Manager of a long- short equity fund at Symphony Asset Management. The company was acquired by Nuveen in 2001. After a decade at that firm and now a mother of 3 young children, Shannon turned her entrepreneurial passion in a new direction with a drastic pivot to start a luxury children’s clothing brand, Busy Bees. Taking her years of experience in qualitative analysis of retail companies, Shannon and her business partner built the brand from the ground up, ushering its’ growth from a garage to “Gwyneth Paltrow’s Goop” over the course of a few years. Shannon and her family made the decision to move from the Bay Area to Birmingham, Alabama to be closer to family. And shortly after, the call to return to her first love, finance, grew to great to ignore. In 2015, Shannon joined RFG Advisory as President, leading RFG as the firm has grown from $1.8B to over $5B. In July of 2024, Shannon was named CEO of RFG Advisory and currently serves in that role. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… Growth Without Compromise: Building Around the Advisor Experience A conversation with Jason Diamond and Shannon Spotswood, CEO of RFG Advisory. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for Financial Advisors. Today’s episode is Growth Without Compromise: Building Around the Advisor Experience. It’s a conversation with Shannon Spotswood, the CEO of RFG Advisory. I’m Jason Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: The right partners make you better. The wrong ones can quietly hold you back. Most conversations about independence focus on platforms as providers of technology, service, or infrastructure. Shannon Spotswood sees them differently. She believes advisors should evaluate a platform the same way they’d evaluate any long-term business partner, by asking whether it will help them build the kind of firm they ultimately want to own. That’s exactly what we explore in this episode. Shannon is the CEO of RFG Advisory, a firm that has grown from a startup into one of the industry’s leading supportive independence platforms. Along the way, she’s developed a unique perspective on what advisors should be looking for beyond economics and technology, and why the right partner can accelerate growth, strengthen culture, and help create a business that’s built to last. It’s a conversation that goes well beyond advisor platforms. We explore why Shannon believes so strongly in growth without compromise, what private equity can look like when the partnership is aligned, why firms shouldn’t try to be everything to everyone, and how advisors can separate marketing promises from meaningful support. We also spend time on a topic that comes up in nearly every transition conversation my team has with advisors, fear. Shannon shares her perspective on why outdated assumptions about making a move continue to hold advisors back and why asking better questions and demanding evidence instead of promises can fundamentally change the way advisors evaluate every opportunity in front of them. Whether you’re considering independence, evaluating your current platform, or simply thinking about what comes next for your business, I think you’ll find Shannon’s perspective both practical and though-provoking, especially the sage advice in her words, “Don’t tell me, show me.” There’s a lot to take away from this conversation, so let’s get to it. Shannon, thanks so much for joining me. Thrilled to have you here. Shannon Spotswood: It’s excellent to be here. I’m really looking forward to it. Jason Diamond: Me too. Let’s dive right in. I want to start with your background. You spent 20 years in San Fran as an investment banker, then as a portfolio manager at Symphony Asset Management before even touching the world of wealth management. So what made you walk away from, we’ll call it the institutional world and enter the world of wealth management? Shannon Spotswood: It’s a little bit of a circuitous story, but I’m going to take us on the short route. I fell in love with Wall Street as a teenager, so I knew I wanted to work on Wall Street. My dream job was actually the time that I spent at Symphony Asset Management. I was a hedge fund manager for them for six years running a long/short equity fund. I then had three children in three and a half years. The firm was acquired by Nuveen Investments, and we grew very large, and I was on this really interesting trajectory within the institutional investment management world. And somewhat of the unexpected happened to me in 2010, we’d come through the financial crisis. I looked around the room, I had these three young children, and having loved finance since a very early age, I couldn’t crawl on an airplane anymore. I fell out of love with what was honestly my first love. And I made a pretty radical pivot. I left Symphony, the tallest building at the time in San Francisco, and I partnered with a woman, and we built a luxury children’s clothing company for the next three years. So about as radical of a move as you can make, a $30 billion firm, big team, a tremendous growth ahead of us to upside down boxes of infant cashmere in a garage that flooded when it rained. So I had my startup in a garage moment. And while I was running the children’s clothing company, my husband and I took a big leap of faith and decided to move from San Francisco to Birmingham, Alabama to get closer to family, to raise our kids in the South, and just manifest the life that we wanted. In the third year of running the kids’ clothing business, we checked every box of our initial business plan, and I turned to my business partner and I was like, “Now what? Should we raise capital? Should we open stores? Should we diversify manufacturing?” And we realized this beautiful little luxury brand that we had created was exactly what it needed to be. And so we restructured the company and I punched out of that. And I spent, really for the first time in my life, about five months in deep contemplation. What was the first hedge fund that I was a part of in San Francisco, my tour of duty through investment banking as an analyst associate and helping them start an M&A group. This incredible decade that I’d spent at Symphony, and then this wild out of left field moment of building a luxury children’s clothing brand. And it had such an epiphany, Jason. And it was this, that I was on the ground floor of all of those businesses. And my aha moment was, oh my gosh, I’m a builder. What I love more than anything is sitting at the intersection of talent and opportunity and what I think is truly one of life’s greatest gifts, and certainly I think the most fun way to live your professional life, which is building something. So I put my resume together and I titled… It wasn’t even really a job search. It was more, I was new to Birmingham. I wondered if there was anything I could be of service in being a part of building something. So I put that resume together and I titled it Seeking the Intangible. And I was looking for that opportunity of talent and building something bigger than myself. And it was through some networking with my across the street neighbor who went on to become a board member of RFG who thought all I did was sell his wife incredibly expensive clothing who networked me to Bobby White, who’s the founder of RFG. And in the first 10 minutes of my conversation with Bobby, and I’ll tell you, both of us went into that meeting thinking it was going to be a filler meeting. He was doing a favor for a friend, and I had seen a little bit of the wealth management industry after Nuveen had acquired Symphony and was like, “That’s not really my bag. My jam is more on the institutional side of things.” And 10 minutes into our very first meeting, we both canceled the rest of our day, and we spent the next two and a half hours in his office having a conversation that really started with what if. What if we took RFG, which had been founded in 2003, and at the time was an OSJ with LPL, what if we took that business and we tore it all the way down to the ground? And we rebuilt it from the ground floor up to be a platform that is designed, that is intentionally engineered, to serve independent advisors? What would it look like to be a client experience company first, a technology company second, and a corporate RIA third? And I’ll tell you, walking out of that meeting, I was like, “This is it. This is it. This is the intangible. This is an opportunity to really build something very special.” And that’s how I found myself sitting in this talking to you today. Jason Diamond: Wow. So there’s a lot to unpack there. Thank you for sharing. And you shared it with a degree of vulnerability that I personally, I have a two-year-old and a three-week-old as of this recording. So it resonates with me. I think it resonates with a lot of advisors, people in our, and honestly, probably most industries, the constant pull in multiple different directions. And I love what you called it, seeking the intangible. And it sounds like you didn’t go in with any preconceived notion about… Many of our guests, by the way, that is the case. They walk in saying, “I knew since I was two years old I wanted to be in wealth management. I wanted to help be a steward of client…” And I love that your circuitous route took you a different direction. I want to talk more about the firm, and we’ll dive in on some of these elements of your background also. But before we do, you mentioned a little bit of, at a high level, what RFG is. Give me a little more context,

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  Episode #372

  Build, Grow & Transact: From Breakaway to Transaction in 3 Years

  Aug 13, 202648 minS1

  Patrick Larkin, Partner & Practice Leader, Cerity Partners Three years after launching his independent RIA, Patrick Larkin merged with Cerity Partners—but not because that was the original plan. He explains how ownership changed the way he viewed enterprise value, optionality, and the future of his business. In Summary Going independent is often viewed as the destination. Patrick Larkin discovered it was just the beginning. Louis sits down with Patrick, Partner and Practice Leader at Cerity Partners and former founder of Oak Hill Wealth Advisors, to discuss an unconventional journey: leaving Wells Fargo to build an independent RIA, then choosing to merge that business just three years later. Rather than following a predetermined exit strategy, Patrick shares how ownership fundamentally changed the way he thought about enterprise value. A conversation with a prospective acquirer revealed that buyers weren’t interested in purchasing a book of business—they were looking for a business. That realization reshaped how he invested, hired, delegated, and ultimately positioned his firm for the future. The conversation from our Build Grow & Transact series also offers a candid look at life after a merger, from evaluating cultural fit and partnership to balancing autonomy with the resources of a larger organization. More broadly, it illustrates how ownership creates optionality—and why the most valuable decision an advisor makes may not be the one they originally envisioned. The Storyline After spending nearly 15 years building a successful practice at AG Edwards, Wachovia, and Wells Fargo, Patrick Larkin launched Oak Hill Wealth Advisors in 2022 with a simple objective: build a business on his own terms. Like many advisors, he expected independence to be the final destination for a long time. But then there was the realization that ownership changes more than economics; it changes perspective. And it became the beginning of an entirely different way of thinking. As acquisition inquiries arrived sooner than expected, Patrick realized something that fundamentally changed his strategy. Sophisticated buyers weren’t evaluating his client relationships as a book of business; they were evaluating Oak Hill as an enterprise. That insight shifted his priorities from maximizing short-term profitability to building a business that could thrive beyond its founder. Just three years after launching, Patrick chose to merge with Cerity Partners—not because he was looking for an exit, but because he believed it strengthened the future for his clients, his team, and his family. Louis and Patrick explore what led to that decision, how ownership increased the value of his business almost immediately, why he compares independence to an IPO, and what advisors should consider if they hope to create options for the future—even if they don’t yet know what that future looks like. Topics Covered Building enterprise value versus maximizing annual income Creating optionality through ownership Leaving Wells Fargo to launch an independent RIA Why buyers value businesses more than books of business Evaluating strategic partners and acquisition opportunities The economics of independence and business valuation Life after merging with Cerity Partners Balancing autonomy with enterprise-scale resources Leadership, succession, and building beyond the founder Long-term ownership and partnership models > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why did Patrick decide to leave Wells Fargo? (11:07) Patrick explains why growing frustrations around control, firm priorities, and the ability to build his business eventually outweighed the comfort of staying put. How did going independent immediately change the value of his business? (21:42) Patrick introduces one of the episode’s biggest ideas: why launching Oak Hill felt like taking a company public and how ownership increased the firm’s value almost overnight. Why did Patrick sell only three years after becoming independent? (20:03) An unexpected conversation with a prospective acquirer completely changed how he viewed enterprise value and accelerated his long-term thinking. What separates a business from a book of business? (21:42) Patrick discusses why recruiting advisors, delegating client relationships, and investing beyond himself made Oak Hill more attractive to strategic buyers. Why Cerity Partners? (26:48) Rather than focusing on valuation, Cerity emphasized culture, partnership, and long-term alignment—qualities Patrick says ultimately mattered most. What is life actually like after a merger? (37:57) Patrick offers an unusually candid perspective on autonomy, leadership, and why he says he hasn’t second-guessed the decision once. Key Takeaways Ownership creates opportunities that often aren’t visible until after independence. Enterprise value is built by creating a business that can thrive beyond its founder. The first acquisition conversation can be valuable even if no transaction occurs. Cultural alignment may ultimately matter more than valuation when selecting a long-term partner. Independence doesn’t eliminate future options—it expands them. Strategic transactions can strengthen outcomes for clients, employees, and owners simultaneously. The goal isn’t simply to own a business; it’s to create choices for what comes next. https://youtu.be/f7FGLGjBbyo Quotable Moments “The day Oak Hill launched felt like the business had gone public.” “Potential acquirers weren’t interested in buying a book. They were interested in buying a business.” “Ownership isn’t simply about control. It’s about creating optionality.” “The fear of leaving is almost always worse than the actual experience of leaving.” FAQs Why did Patrick Larkin merge with Cerity Partners only three years after launching his RIA? Patrick explains that independence changed how he viewed enterprise value. After learning what sophisticated buyers were actually looking for, he intentionally built Oak Hill as a business rather than simply managing for annual profitability. Why does Patrick compare independence to an IPO? Because ownership immediately transformed the economic value of his practice. Rather than participating in an internal succession model, he owned an independent enterprise that carried substantially greater market value. What changed after Patrick became independent? Beyond gaining control, he began making decisions through the lens of enterprise value—investing in advisors, systems, and infrastructure that would make the business less dependent on him personally. What made Cerity Partners stand out? Patrick cites the firm’s culture, partnership model, meritocracy, long-term vision, and ability to combine local autonomy with enterprise-level capabilities. Is this episode only relevant for advisors considering selling? No. The broader lesson is that ownership creates flexibility. Whether an advisor ultimately remains independent or joins another organization, understanding how enterprise value is created can influence decisions from day one. What is the biggest lesson Patrick hopes advisors take away? That independence isn’t simply about leaving a firm. It’s about creating the ability to choose what comes next on your own terms. Patrick explains that independence changed how he viewed enterprise value. After learning what sophisticated buyers were actually looking for, he intentionally built Oak Hill as a business rather than simply managing for annual profitability. Because ownership immediately transformed the economic value of his practice. Rather than participating in an internal succession model, he owned an independent enterprise that carried substantially greater market value. Beyond gaining control, he began making decisions through the lens of enterprise value—investing in advisors, systems, and infrastructure that would make the business less dependent on him personally. Patrick cites the firm’s culture, partnership model, meritocracy, long-term vision, and ability to combine local autonomy with enterprise-level capabilities. No. The broader lesson is that ownership creates flexibility. Whether an advisor ultimately remains independent or joins another organization, understanding how enterprise value is created can influence decisions from day one. That independence isn’t simply about leaving a firm. It’s about creating the ability to choose what comes next on your own terms. Related Resources From Start-Up to $31B Behemoth RIA: The Catalysts Behind the Growth of Mega-Firm Cerity Partners Ownership Matters: What Advisors Need to Know When Evaluating Firms Top Tips for Setting Your Business Up for Success Years Before a Move Patrick Larkin Partner and Practice Leader Patrick is a Partner and Practice Leader in the Lansdowne, VA office. He is a member of the Lansdowne Practice, where he works closely with families, foundations, and non-profits to help them define and achieve their financial goals with clarity and confidence. With a deep specialization in retirement income distribution planning and complex risk and wealth management strategies, Patrick is known for helping clients simplify complicated financial decisions, reduce uncertainty, and build sustainable, long-term plans. His approach emphasizes fiduciary responsibility, transparency, and personalized guidance — ensuring clients always feel informed and empowered. Prior to joining Cerity Partners , Patrick was the founding member of Oak Hill Wealth Advisors, where he built a highly respected independent advisory practice that earned the trust of families, professionals, and mission-driven organizations across the region. His leadership was instrumental in shaping a client-first culture that continues today. Patrick’s work is rooted in a passion for long-term relationships — guiding clients not just through markets, but through life’s milestones such as retirement, business transitions, philanthropic planning, and wealth transfer across generations. He takes pride in being both a strategic advisor and a steady partner to the people he serves. Patrick lives in Bluemont, VA, with his wife Angela, their two children, Paige and Sean, and their Golden Retrievers, Huckleberry and Genoa. Outside of the office, Patrick and his family enjoy an active lifestyle — whether it’s hiking and backpacking on the Appalachian Trail, biking the Great Allegheny Passage, or sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. These experiences reflect his belief in balance, resilience, and enjoying the journey — values he also brings to his work with clients. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… Build, Grow & Transact: From Breakaway to Transaction in 3 Years A conversation with Louis Diamond and Patrick Larkin, Partner & Practice Leader at Cerity Partners. Louis Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Build, Grow & Transact: From Breakaway to Transaction in 3 Years. It’s a conversation with Patrick Larkin, Partner and Practice Leader at Cerity Partners. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is The Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport . Louis Diamond: Ownership as a way of creating opportunities you can’t always predict. That’s exactly why we created our Build, Grow, and Transact series. Independence isn’t the end of the story. It’s often the beginning of thinking differently about enterprise value, optionality, and what comes next. Today’s guest is Patrick Larkin, Partner and Practice Leader at Cerity Partners, and formerly the founder of Oak Hill Wealth Advisors. Patrick spent nearly 15 years building a successful practice at A.G. Edwards, Wachovia, and eventually Wells Fargo before launching his own independent firm in 2022. Just three years later, he merged that firm into Cerity. At first glance, that timeline might seem surprisingly short, but as you’ll hear, the merger wasn’t a change in direction. It was the result of seeing his business differently once he owned it. Yet, it’s this perspective that really brings that thought home. Patrick said the day Oak Hill launched felt like the business had gone public because overnight, what had been viewed as a book of business became an enterprise with substantially greater value, some four to five times the value of what it was worth at Wells. And that realization changed the way he invested, the way he hired, and ultimately the way he thought about the future. Pat and I also talk about something advisors don’t often discuss candidly, what life actually looks like after a merger. How much control do you give up? What changes day to day? How do you know whether you’re joining a partner or simply selling a business? Whether your long-term plan is to remain independent forever or eventually join a larger organization, Patrick’s experience is a reminder that ownership isn’t simply about control. It’s about creating optionality and putting yourself in a position where the next decision is yours to make. So let’s get to it. Patrick, thanks for coming on our show today. Patrick Larkin: Oh, my pleasure. Nice to meet you, Louis. Louis Diamond: You too. So let’s start off basically how we start every interview. Tell us about yourself, your background, and how you found your way into our industry in the first place. Patrick Larkin: Yeah, thank you for asking. I knew I always wanted to be a financial advisor. That part really wasn’t in question, but upon graduating college and being a 22-year-old, I knew that it was probably not practical to walk in and start advising people my parents’ age with their life savings. Probably wasn’t going to be a recipe for success. So I took a quick tour through the pharmaceutical industry first, which ended up being unexpectedly valuable. My employers there pushed me to think like an entrepreneur and within our territories. And honestly, that mindset never left me. It shaped how I built everything that came after. Eventually, an opportunity presented itself in Loudoun County, Virginia in Northern Virginia, and I became an FA trainee with A.G. Edwards, absolutely fantastic firm to start my career. Now, what drew me to this career was pretty simple. I felt like it was one of the professions that we had an opportunity to do so much good for others while simultaneously also doing well for yourself, and those two things aren’t in conflict. I also really loved the idea that in this profession there was no hiding. You don’t get paid to show up. You get paid for what you actually do. And perhaps for me, what was most important, I loved the weight of responsibility. I loved earning people’s trust. I loved the idea of deserving, being deserving of their trust, and being a steward of what they’ve worked a lifetime to build. I never took that lightly, and I still don’t. Louis Diamond: That’s amazing. Yeah, I mean, the number of people I’ve heard, you talked so fondly about A.G. Edwards and there’s a bunch of other firms that have since been absorbed or emerged that are like the regional firms of old. So not surprised to hear you loved it. A.G. Edwards, obviously, became Wells Fargo Advisors or was acquired or merged with Wells Fargo. So I know you’re at Wells and A.G. Edwards until 2022. So give us a quick version. How’d you build your practice from the pharma world into being in FA? Patrick Larkin: Yeah, so as I started with A.G. Edwards, I came in at really just the perfect time. It was towards the end of the financial crisis. And I built the business the old-fashioned way with a lot of cold calling and eventually did some dinner seminars, which I can tell you is a very expensive way to learn how to speak in front of a room. But I made some progress, and I was also in a great office, small enough that some of the advisors there would hand off some of the smaller accounts that they weren’t interested in working with, and got an opportunity to get a lot of reps in working with real life clients and individuals. I knew early on I didn’t have enough talent to win on talent alone, so I made up for it and compensated for that with really hard work. The real turning point came for me when A.G. Edwards was first acquired by Wachovia Securities, and that was about five years into my career. And at that point, my branch manager, who was eyeing retirement, asked me to step in as her partner, and that changed everything. We eventually moved over to a Wachovia Securities office, another really great local office in Loudoun County, Virginia. And from that office, I worked on and became a CIMA, a CFP, worked with the clients, built a business through referrals. And I found at that point in my career when I would go to a meeting with Wachovia, eventually Wells Fargo, as a young 30-year-old, I would look around the room often and realize that I was the youngest person in the room. The funny thing was 10 years later, I would go into that same room and I’d look around and I still was the youngest guy in that room. And those demographics in our industry, and when I came into our industry, ultimately led that office that I worked in with Wells Fargo Advisors, I eventually was the recipient and party to five different succession plans- Louis Diamond: Wow. Patrick Larkin: … at Wells Fargo Advisors. I hoped that I had built a reputation as somebody that these other advisors would entrust with their clients. And over that time period, really, I would say professionally, one of my accomplishments I’m most proud of is all five of those retired advisors that I used to work with, who had an opportunity to see me work with clients, all became clients of mine, I still continue to work with. And it’s professionally just one of the greatest honors that I’ve ever had. Louis Diamond: I mean, that’s a large number of advisors you helped sunset, but I would agree it’s the ultimate proof of concept that they not only trusted you with their clients and their life’s work, but now also with their family’s wealth. So I like that, kind of the full life cycle there. So I’m curious, though, you stayed at Wells through a really turbulent time through the fake bank scandal. There’s a lot of attrition. I mean, obviously, they’re still a powerhouse to this day, but what kept you at W

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  Episode #367

  Emotional Intelligence: The “Untouchable” Differentiator in an AI World

  Jul 9, 202651 minS1

  With James Woodfall, Communication and Behavior Specialist, Raise Your EI As AI makes expertise more accessible, what becomes an advisor’s true advantage? EI expert James Woodfall explains why authentic human connection may be the one thing technology can’t replicate. In Summary As artificial intelligence reshapes how information is delivered, financial advisors are being challenged to rethink what truly differentiates their value. Mindy Diamond sits down with James Woodfall, a former wealth management business owner turned emotional intelligence expert and founder of Raise Your EI, to explore why emotional intelligence may become one of the profession’s greatest competitive advantages. Together, they discuss how rapport, curiosity, and authentic human connection influence trust, referrals, leadership, and client loyalty and why those skills can be developed just like technical expertise. The conversation also examines the difference between AI’s “synthetic empathy” and the authentic relationships clients continue to value—and why that distinction matters to financial advisors now more than ever. The Storyline For decades, advisors have built successful businesses by combining technical expertise with thoughtful financial guidance. But as AI makes information more accessible and planning tools more sophisticated, expertise alone is becoming less of a differentiator. James Woodfall believes the future belongs to advisors who master something technology cannot authentically replicate: human connection. Drawing on his experience as both a former wealth management firm owner and a specialist in communication and behavioral science, James explains why emotional intelligence isn’t simply a “soft skill.” It’s a business skill that affects nearly every aspect of an advisory practice—from building trust and earning referrals to leading teams and helping clients make difficult decisions. Mindy and James explore why asking better questions matters more than having better answers, how curiosity creates stronger relationships than scripts ever can, and why advisors who create memorable client experiences may find themselves even more valuable in an increasingly automated world. The conversation ultimately reframes AI not as a replacement for advisors, but as a catalyst forcing the profession to rediscover the uniquely human qualities clients have valued all along. Topics Covered Emotional intelligence as a business skill Building trust through rapport and curiosity Authentic empathy vs. synthetic AI empathy The psychology behind client decision-making Why referrals are rooted in emotional outcomes Coaching advisors to improve communication Leadership and emotional intelligence AI’s impact on advisor differentiation Creating premium client experiences Future-proofing advisory businesses > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why do better questions lead to better financial advice? (6:10) James explains why financial planning is only as good as the conversations that precede it—and why understanding a client’s fears and aspirations leads to better outcomes than simply gathering financial facts. How does emotional intelligence translate into business growth? (15:30) Rapport isn’t simply about making clients feel comfortable. James discusses why advisors who build trust quickly tend to earn more referrals and become significantly more referable. Can emotional intelligence actually be learned? (37:05) Contrary to popular belief, emotional intelligence isn’t an innate personality trait. James explains why it is a trainable skill and how advisors can intentionally improve it throughout their careers. What makes authentic empathy different from AI? (39:10) One of the episode’s most compelling discussions explores the difference between AI’s ability to simulate empathy and the authentic emotional connection that develops between two people. Why should advisors think more about experience than efficiency? (45:10) Clients don’t always pay more for information. Often, they pay more for confidence, judgment, reassurance, and the experience of working with someone they trust. Will AI replace advisors or elevate the best ones? (46:55) James shares why he believes AI is more likely to automate routine work while making relationship-centered advisors even more valuable. Key Takeaways Emotional intelligence is a measurable business capability—not simply a personality trait. Stronger client relationships begin with curiosity rather than advice. Advisors who solve emotional concerns make it easier for clients to recommend than advisors who simply deliver technical expertise. AI may replicate information, but authentic trust remains distinctly human. Premium advisory relationships will increasingly be defined by the experience clients receive—not just the answers they’re given. Emotional intelligence improves leadership, client retention, referrals, and advisor well-being. The firms that embrace both technology and human connection will likely be best positioned for the future. https://youtu.be/xlQMQm6mqtc Quotable Moments “Rapport building is one of the foundational things for trust building.” “It’s not real empathy. It’s synthetic empathy.” “If all of our decisions were made on price, Ferrari wouldn’t have a business.” “The advisors who create authentic human connection may be the ones who remain untouchable.” FAQs What is emotional intelligence, and why does it matter for financial advisors? James defines emotional intelligence as the ability to recognize, understand, and influence emotions in ourselves and others. For advisors, those skills strengthen communication, trust, leadership, and client relationships. Can emotional intelligence actually be developed? Yes. Unlike IQ, emotional intelligence can be improved through intentional practice, feedback, coaching, and greater self-awareness. Why do referrals have so much to do with emotional intelligence? Clients often remember and recommend how an advisor made them feel more than the technical work performed. Solving emotional concerns creates stories clients naturally share with others. What does James mean by “synthetic empathy”? AI can recognize language patterns and respond empathetically, but it doesn’t genuinely experience human emotion. James argues that authentic empathy remains one of an advisor’s greatest competitive advantages. How should advisors think about AI? Rather than viewing AI solely as a competitor, advisors should use it to improve efficiency while investing more time in conversations, judgment, and relationships that technology cannot fully replace. What is the biggest mindset shift advisors should make? Stop viewing emotional intelligence as a soft skill. Treat it as a business skill that directly influences growth, leadership, client loyalty, and long-term differentiation. James defines emotional intelligence as the ability to recognize, understand, and influence emotions in ourselves and others. For advisors, those skills strengthen communication, trust, leadership, and client relationships. Yes. Unlike IQ, emotional intelligence can be improved through intentional practice, feedback, coaching, and greater self-awareness. Clients often remember and recommend how an advisor made them feel more than the technical work performed. Solving emotional concerns creates stories clients naturally share with others. AI can recognize language patterns and respond empathetically, but it doesn’t genuinely experience human emotion. James argues that authentic empathy remains one of an advisor’s greatest competitive advantages. Rather than viewing AI solely as a competitor, advisors should use it to improve efficiency while investing more time in conversations, judgment, and relationships that technology cannot fully replace. Stop viewing emotional intelligence as a soft skill. Treat it as a business skill that directly influences growth, leadership, client loyalty, and long-term differentiation. Related Resources Why AI Matters Now: Filling the Estate Planning Gap with Wealth.com The Paradox of Choice Traps Successful Advisors Freedom vs. Familiarity: Is It Worth Disrupting Comfort for Something That Might Be Better? Guest Bio James Woodfall, founder of Raise Your EI , is a former financial planner who now advises financial services and firms on how they can leverage emotional intelligence (EI) to improve individual and organizational performance. He is the co-author, with Cliff Lansley, of “ The Heart of Finance ,” which teaches finance professionals to develop the emotional intelligence needed to build effective and profitable client relationships. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… Emotional Intelligence: The “Untouchable” Differentiator in an AI World A conversation with Mindy Diamond and James Woodfall, Communication and Behavior Specialist at Raise Your EI. Mindy Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Emotional Intelligence: The “Untouchable” Differentiator in an AI World. It’s a conversation with James Woodfall, Communication and Behavior Specialist from Raise Your EI. I’m Mindy Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our Annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport . For years, advisors have competed on expertise, the ability to solve problems, deliver answers, and provide guidance clients couldn’t easily find on their own. But today, those answers are becoming easier to access via artificial intelligence and tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity. AI can generate planning ideas, summarize complex topics, and answer questions in seconds. As the technology continues to improve, it raises an important question. If information becomes increasingly commoditized, what will clients continue to value most? My guest today, James Woodfall, is the Founder of the training firm, Raise Your EI, and a former wealth management business owner. James now helps advisors, leaders, and organizations strengthen the communication and behavioral skills that drive trust, influence, and performance. Skills rooted in emotional intelligence or EI, something that AI cannot authentically replicate. What’s interesting about James’s perspective is that he doesn’t view emotional intelligence as a soft skill. He views it as a business skill, one that impacts how advisors build rapport, earn referrals, lead teams, deepen client relationships, and ultimately differentiate themselves in an increasingly competitive marketplace that includes human and machine-driven advice. Our conversation explores why rapport is the foundation of trust, how emotional intelligence can be developed like any other professional skill, and why advisors who learn to create authentic human connection may be best positioned to thrive alongside AI, not compete against it. Or as James puts it, remain untouchable in the face of a changing world. Because while technology may continue to reshape how advice is delivered, the experience of being understood, trusted, and guided by another human being remains remarkably difficult to replicate. So, let’s get to it. James, thank you for joining me today, especially coming all the way from the UK. I’m grateful. James Woodfall: Thanks for having me on. Mindy Diamond: So, let’s start at the beginning. You’re a different kind of guest for us, and a topic that is near and dear to my heart because I’m always all about emotional intelligence and EQ, but it’s a topic that sometimes can feel a little squishy to some folks. So, tell us a little bit about your background and really how you got into the world of wealth management. James Woodfall: I got into wealth management probably was by accident while I was, I think about 19 years old. I got a job at a bank because I was living with different jobs and it was the first company that would take me. So I ended up working in a bank as a cashier in a branch. And then after a series of different career moves, I ended up running my own wealth management firm for about nine years, which I sold about three and a half years ago. Around the time that I was selling it, I did my first master’s degree in communication and behavior analysis, and that’s when I started taking a bit of a deep dive into understanding emotional intelligence and behavior and communication. But really, I started that journey before I sold my wealth management company, and really the goal was, how can I become a better financial advisor to my clients by having a better understanding of their psychology behavior around money so that I could communicate with them more effectively, help them build their plans? So I had a bit of a… like a lot of people I speak to in wealth management, they fell into it. Mindy Diamond: So, a lot to unpack there and I’m fascinated by your story. Tell us a little bit about how you began to use or leverage emotional intelligence. You say you got into it or were fascinated by it because it was a way of helping your clients. So, talk to us a little bit about that. How did you begin to see the impact long before you started this business? James Woodfall: So going back a couple of steps to that. When I started the business, it was very transactional. You’d sit down with the client, you find out about what sort of assets they have, what type of plans they have already, and you look for gaps where you can optimize things, or there was a product which they need which you didn’t have. But I moved away from that type of service to a financial planning led service. So, where actually before we get talking about, well, how do we structure your world? We spend a lot of time building a plan in cashflow modeling software. So the one that I used was over at a company called Voyant, and effectively I build a cashflow plan for the clients, which would map out based on assumptions of what age they would reach financial independence. And then that then would then move on to, how to we optimize your holdings? Now what occurred to me pretty quickly in offering that service is that the outputs from that type of exercise are only as good as the inputs. So you’re really relying on the client to be able to come up with the answers to the questions that you ask them to make the financial plan work. And in my experience, quite a lot of the time you sit down with these people and you ask them, “Imagine you’re retired, what does an ideal week look like for you?” So, what I realized is actually I was asking clients a lot of questions which no one had ever asked them before, such as, “If you go retire, imagine you’re retired tomorrow, what does your idea week look like?” Very rarely do we get asked that day-to-day, especially not from friends, family members, certainly. So I went off and actually did a diploma in coaching because I thought initially I want to become better at actually getting people to think about the future and think about plans. And in doing that, I ended up wanting to take a bit of a deeper dive into understanding behavior at a higher level. So that led me on to getting my masters. Impacts on clients though is that I became, and me as well, is that I became a far better listener first. So I listened first, I stopped making so many assumptions as I found I had about people. And really, I think that changed the dynamic in terms of me constant, I suppose, dictating to people about what they should be doing. So of course that’s what a good advisor does, isn’t it, is advice. You switch around into actually making sure you’ve got a deep understanding of people’s hopes, fears, goals, dreams, and then ultimately, you can help them better in terms of optimizing their financial plans and wealth. Mindy Diamond: Yeah. 100% of what you just said speaks to me in a big way, because that is 100% our philosophy. Most recruiters, I don’t mean it disparagingly, but most recruiters in general are pretty transactional. They see a hammer, they see a nail. So, a recruiter sees a financial advisor and he’s a means to an end to making a deal to a transaction. And our whole approach from day one was never about seeing you, financial advisor, as a transaction, but rather first and foremost, wanting to understand what’s important to you. And we get told all the time that we were asking questions that nobody ever asked them before. And I want to unpack it more, because I love what you’re saying. The goal as far as I see it is not just to ask a bunch of questions nobody asked before, but it’s to ask questions as a means to an end, to start out by asking questions that make somebody comfortable that tell them that you care about them. Then it’s about asking questions that they’ve never been asked before because the answers to a question like, “How do you see yourself behaving in retirement,” has everything to do with how much money they’ll need to retire. So, one informs the other. In our world asking somebody, “What are the things that spark you and what are the things that really don’t? And what will you do with this information?” And all those sorts of questions are questions many people had never been asked before, especially if somebody was looking at them as a transaction. And yet, it’s what deepens relationships, it’s what creates trust, and it’s what allows you to identify me as a recruiter, identify the best solution or the best opportunity for someone. So, do you agree with that? Is there anything that I’m off about? James Woodfall: No, that’s exactly the point. I think I’m asking better questions as a wealth manager talking to your client. Because ultimately this is, I suppose, one of the things which comes from understanding emotional intelligence, is that for most of us, we make decisions in motion first and then we justify with logic and reasoning, which is basically back to from. If I was to start with logical reasoning and then expect people to make a buying decision. And so a lot of the time, especially with things like retirement savings, for example, because it’s in the future, it’s over there, especially if it’s 10, 20 years away, people think, “Well, why will I give up so much money a month now for something which is so far in the future that I c

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  Episode #365

  Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise

  Jun 25, 202652 minS1

  Jason Fertitta – CEO & Partner, Americana Partners Jason Fertitta shares how Americana Partners grew from a $2.6B breakaway team to a $13B+ enterprise by focusing on ownership, enterprise value, strategic acquisitions, and long-term growth. In Summary Many advisors view independence as the ultimate objective: a chance to gain control, improve economics, and build a business on their own terms. For Jason Fertitta, independence was only the beginning. Louis Diamond speaks with the CEO and Founding Partner of Americana Partners about the firm’s evolution from a $2.6 billion breakaway team in 2019 to a national enterprise managing more than $13 billion today. The conversation explores the decisions that fueled that growth, the mindset required to build long-term enterprise value, and why Jason believes advisors should evaluate success through the lens of net worth rather than annual income. Along the way, they discuss recruiting, acquisitions, private equity, professional management, and the tradeoffs that come with building something intended to outlast its founders. The Storyline The independent channel has matured. A decade ago, many advisors pursued independence primarily for greater autonomy, higher payouts, and control over the client experience. Today, a growing number are approaching the decision differently—viewing independence as a platform for building enterprise value, attracting capital, completing acquisitions, and creating businesses that can scale beyond the founders themselves. Jason Fertitta’s journey reflects that evolution. When he and his partners left Morgan Stanley in 2019, Americana launched with approximately $2.6B in client assets and a vision to build a nationally recognized wealth management firm. Seven years later, the firm oversees more than $13B, employs roughly 100 people, operates across multiple markets, has completed several acquisitions, and brought on Lovell Minnick Partners as its first institutional investor. Throughout the conversation, Jason offers a transparent look at the realities of enterprise building. That includes reinvesting profits rather than maximizing income, hiring professional management long before it feels necessary, embracing acquisitions as a growth strategy, and making decisions based on long-term value creation rather than short-term economics. For advisors considering what comes after independence, the episode provides a practical framework for thinking about ownership, scale, capital, and the future value of their business. About the Build, Grow & Transact Series for Advisors Build, Grow & Transact explores what happens after independence. The series features advisors and firm leaders who viewed independence not as a destination, but as the foundation for building something larger. Some launched firms from scratch. Others scaled through recruiting, acquisitions, or strategic partnerships. Many eventually faced decisions around capital, ownership, succession, or liquidity. While every story is different, they share a common thread: a willingness to think beyond the transition itself and focus on creating long-term enterprise value. Through candid conversations with founders, builders, and industry leaders, the series examines the decisions, tradeoffs, and lessons that come with growing an advisory business into an enduring enterprise. For advisors contemplating independence, actively building a firm, or considering what comes next, Build, Grow & Transact offers a look at the paths others have taken—and what they’ve learned along the way. > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why did Americana grow from $2.6 billion to more than $13 billion? (06:16) Jason explains how a combination of organic growth, advisor recruiting, acquisitions, and long-term strategic planning helped accelerate the firm’s expansion. Why do clients often do more business with independent advisors? (12:17) Jason shares his perspective on why clients frequently deepen relationships after an advisor leaves a wirehouse environment. What role have alternatives played in Americana’s growth strategy? (14:40) The discussion explores how differentiated investment access can help advisors stand apart in an increasingly commoditized marketplace. When is it time to build a professional management team? (18:36) Jason explains why Americana invested heavily in leadership, operations, and infrastructure from the very beginning. Why did Americana bring in private equity capital? (25:16) A candid discussion about growth capital, M&A opportunities, and the decision to partner with Lovell Minnick Partners. How do you evaluate enterprise value versus annual income? (20:16) Jason offers one of the episode’s most important lessons: building wealth through ownership can look very different than maximizing current compensation. What makes a successful acquisition target? (39:51) Jason outlines how Americana evaluates M&A opportunities and how acquisitions fit into the broader client experience. Is it better to build your own firm or join an existing platform? (45:40) The conversation closes with Jason’s perspective on the trade-offs between launching independently and joining a scaled independent enterprise. Topics Covered Enterprise value creation Independence and ownership Organic growth strategies Advisor recruiting RIA acquisitions Private equity partnerships Professional management teams Alternative investments Family office services Building a national wealth management firm Key Takeaways Independence can be a starting point for building an enterprise rather than the final objective. Long-term wealth creation often stems from ownership and equity appreciation, not from maximizing annual income. Reinvesting profits into leadership, infrastructure, and talent can accelerate enterprise value. Organic growth and acquisitions can complement one another when supported by a clear strategy. Outside capital can be a growth catalyst when aligned with management’s long-term vision. The most scalable firms are often built around client needs rather than predefined acquisition targets. Advisors have more options than ever before, ranging from building independently to joining established platforms. https://youtu.be/_12jZJFsi4U Quotable Moments “Even to this day, I don’t make anywhere near the amount of income that I made when I was on Wall Street. But my net worth is up tenfold.” “If you want to create value for yourself and your partners and grow your balance sheet, you can do it in a much more tax-efficient way in the independent world.” “I’ve never thought about how much of the company I own. I’ve thought about what my slice is worth.” “We want to build something our children would be proud to say we helped create.” FAQs Why are more advisors viewing independence as a business-building opportunity? The independent channel increasingly offers opportunities to create enterprise value, pursue acquisitions, attract capital, and build scalable businesses beyond a traditional advisory practice. How can advisors increase the enterprise value of their firms? Enterprise value is often driven by factors such as growth, profitability, leadership depth, recurring revenue, client demographics, infrastructure, and scalability. What role does private equity play in wealth management firms? Private equity can provide capital, strategic guidance, operational expertise, and acquisition support while helping firms accelerate growth initiatives. How do RIAs use acquisitions to grow? Many firms use acquisitions to expand geographically, add specialized capabilities, deepen client services, and accelerate asset growth. Why are professional management teams becoming more common among RIAs? As firms scale, dedicated leadership across operations, finance, compliance, and business management enables advisors to focus more effectively on clients and growth. Is launching an independent firm always the best path? Not necessarily. Some advisors prefer to build their own enterprise, while others may achieve their goals more effectively by joining an established independent platform that already provides scale and infrastructure. The independent channel increasingly offers opportunities to create enterprise value, pursue acquisitions, attract capital, and build scalable businesses beyond a traditional advisory practice. Enterprise value is often driven by factors such as growth, profitability, leadership depth, recurring revenue, client demographics, infrastructure, and scalability. Private equity can provide capital, strategic guidance, operational expertise, and acquisition support while helping firms accelerate growth initiatives. Many firms use acquisitions to expand geographically, add specialized capabilities, deepen client services, and accelerate asset growth. As firms scale, dedicated leadership across operations, finance, compliance, and business management enables advisors to focus more effectively on clients and growth. Not necessarily. Some advisors prefer to build their own enterprise, while others may achieve their goals more effectively by joining an established independent platform that already provides scale and infrastructure. Related Resources From Ex-Morgan Stanley Advisor to One of the Biggest Breakaway Stories of 2019 with Jason Fertitta (Podcast Episode) Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That Last (Article) M&A Readiness Assessment (Tool) Guest Bio Jason Fertitta Jason is currently Chief Executive Officer / Founding Partner of Americana Partners. Jason was a Managing Director in Morgan Stanley’s Private Wealth Division for eleven years. He joined Morgan Stanley in 2008 after six years with Lehman Brothers High Net Worth Division. Prior to joining Lehman Brothers, Jason worked six years for Texas Direct. Jason serves on the Board of The Good Samaritan Foundation and Endowment and the Houston Museum of Natural Science. Jason attended St. Edwards University in Austin. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise A conversation with Louis Diamond and Jason Fertitta, CEO & Partner at Americana Partners. Louis Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Build, Grow & Transact: Americana’s $12B Path from Breakaway to Enterprise. It’s a conversation with Jason Fertitta, CEO and partner of Americana Partners. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for financial advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique, or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors, and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education driven, and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report. It’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement, and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport . Louis Diamond: Independence is often viewed as the finish line. Break away, gain control, own the business, and enjoy the economics that come with it. But, for some advisors, going independent is just the beginning. That’s the idea behind this new series called Build, Grow, and Transact, featuring advisors who saw independence not as a destination, but as the first chapter of a business building story. And there will be some familiar names along the way, including our first guest who was on our show back in 2020, talking about what was at the time, one of the industry’s breakaway moves. That’s Jason Fertitta, CEO and founding partner of Americana Partners. When Jason and his partners left Morgan Stanley in 2019, they started Americana with approximately 2.6 billion in client assets, and a vision that extended well beyond becoming a successful independent firm. Today, Americana oversees more than 12 billion, has expanded nationally, completed multiple acquisitions, built out a professional management team, and brought on institutional capital to support its next phase of growth. What makes Jason’s perspective valuable that he’s now experienced independence through several different lenses as a breakaway advisor, as a founder, as a builder of enterprise value, and now as the leader of a firm, actively pursuing acquisitions and recruiting talent from across the industry. We talk about the decisions that fueled Americana’s growth, why Jason has always viewed the business through a long-term lens, what changed when private equity entered the picture, and why maximizing enterprise value often requires a very different mindset than maximizing current income. For advisors who think independence is a destination, Jason’s story offers a look at what can happen when it’s treated as a starting point instead, so let’s get to it. Jason, thanks for coming back on our show today. Jason Fertitta: Pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Louis Diamond: You got it. Yeah, you’re our first guest in our new subseries, so you should feel honored. And I’m honored too, because the last time we had you on the show, Americana was about a year old, you’re navigating COVID, and all those challenges. But, for listeners who may not remember the episode, can you give us a quick version of the origin story of Americana, and what the firm looked like when you first launched it? Jason Fertitta: Yeah, I believe if I’m remembering correctly, I was in Colorado talking to you guys, and it was right after we launched, so that was a fun but stressful time. I think at the time that we launched, it was certainly the road less traveled. Most teams go from one wirehouse to another. We had an entrepreneurial itch. There was 11 of us that started the firm. We actually launched the firm from this exact building that we’re in here, but all of this was under construction. We were in temporary space one floor below on card tables, and pizza boxes, and all the things that you can envision when you think of a startup. But, yeah, we weighed all of our options in terms of going from one firm to another, staying where we were, and had a lot of talks with ourselves, and our spouses, and they were all very supportive. When you do something like this, you’re certainly scratching the entrepreneurial itch that I think is required for somebody that wants to try and build their own company. And I think we’re all satisfying that itch in different ways. We all had a lot of other outside business interests. I’m passionate about the restaurant industry, because it’s what I grew up in as a kid. And so, had opened some restaurants with some chefs that I really admire, and were doing things like that to scratch the itch, but there’s no other way to do it than doing that in your profession. And so, we decided to launch the firm. We also just felt like Texas being such a wealthy state, there really wasn’t a regionally dominant RIA from here. There’s a lot of big RIAs in the Northeast, and the Northwest, and the West Coast. And we just felt like Texas was ready to hopefully be able to support the concept of launching it from the state, and then expanding it out regionally and nationally from here. Those are all thoughts in our heads and dreams and we’ve worked really hard to get to where we are, but I think we’re in a great spot right now for another leg of growth. Louis Diamond: Amazing. I would say that plan has certainly worked out. When you were on our show last in 2019, the firm was at about 2.6 billion at time of launch. And now, I saw in news articles and your ADV, it’s north of 12 billion, but I’m sure it’s even larger now. Can you walk through just what’s the makeup of the firm today? How many partners and advisors? What’s the profile of the end client? What markets are you in, in and around Texas or around the country? Jason Fertitta: Yeah, so today we’re roughly a hundred employees, right at 13 billion in AUM. I would say we have six offices, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Midland, Beverly Hills, and Nashville. We have about 30 advisors, 30 financial advisors, and our average account size I would say is right around $20 million. That’s not a rule, it’s just the way it is. We have some wonderful accounts that are two or three million, and we have some great accounts that are well over a billion. And in terms of the makeup of the firm, since the time we’ve spoken, and we’ll get into this later, but we have run in private equity, we have about nine families that are owners of the firm with us. It’s really families, private equity, and employees. That’s the cap table currently. Louis Diamond: Very cool. As far as building the firm geographically, for the offices of Texas, that makes sense to your earlier comment about wanting to build a Texas dominant or a regionally dominant firm. But, how’d you land in Beverly Hills and Nashville? That’s a little bit different. Jason Fertitta: Yeah, it is. I think so much of where we’re going is secondary to who we’re partnering with. I think we would go anywhere in the country if we had the right partner in that city. We’re not necessarily saying we have to be in Atlanta. Let’s find the right partners in Atlanta. It’s more about, we found the right partners in Atlanta, so we’re going to Atlanta. And you meet these people everywhere. Everyone has their own Rolodex inside of our firm. Sometimes it’s an employee here that has a relationship with someone that wants to break away and be part of an independent firm. Sometimes it’s me. There’s a lot of golf DNA in our firm, so we’ve met a ton of people through the incredible game of golf. In fact, last weekend we just hosted our first Americana Cub Golf Tournament where we took over an entire club, and invited 40 strategic invitations to people that could be helpful to our firm. I would say it’s really just networking, trying to find like-minded advisors that were very big at putting the client at the center of every decision you make. A lot of times you’ll come across of an advisor that financially looks really good on paper, but they’re maybe not always doing what’s right by the client. We run from those situations. We’d rather have a financial advisor that perhaps statistically is inferior to that other one on paper from a P&L perspective, but we feel like it’s doing what’s right by the client in the decisions. And that’s usually the main factor for us in seeking out the right partners. Louis Diamond: I love that. And one of the premises of this new subseries of ours is about growing, and then, of course, recognizing

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