Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

Two founders and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.

Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins is a business podcast hosted by Unknown Host, with 75 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80. PitchCentric scores this show on Booking Probability, Listen Score, and live audience signals refreshed every 24 hours.

Unknown Host hosts Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins, a business show with 75 episodes published.

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  Episode #76

  Use AI To Work Less (Not Do More)

  Sep 1, 20261 hour

  What if the point of AI wasn't to make more, but to work less? This is the thing everyone said AI should do that nobody's actually doing. All the capitalists want to use AI to make more money, not work less. In this episode of Small Effort (Season 4, Episode 15), Sean and Andrew dig into the team that used AI to move to a four-day week instead of squeezing out more, and the WordCamp pivot it mirrors: Andrew walking away from SEO autopilot to build content you're actually proud to publish. They cover why platform risk still burns big companies, the four pillars of content that survive after the AI tricks stop working, and why "what stays stable" beats every AEO hack. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ Slackletter: https://slackletter.com/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/ Margins: http://margins.so/ Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/ Transcript: 00:00.95 Sean Hello. 00:02.69 Andrew Hello, my friends. 00:04.02 Sean How you doing? How was WordCamp? 00:04.96 Andrew Good. WordCamp was... Fucking awesome. um interesting like This is my first WordCamp ever. WordCamp is definitely in decline. 00:14.91 Sean ah 00:17.37 Andrew At least Recamp US is in decline. 00:17.52 Sean Oh. uh-oh 00:19.76 Andrew Done. ah 00:21.27 Sean is there Is there other WordCamp? Is that like WordCamp Belgium? 00:23.90 Andrew They're all over the world. 00:24.30 Sean or 00:25.14 Andrew There's like WordCamp Europe, my... uh my one of my new friends that i made at the conference is going to word camp manila next week Um... It's ah yeah, they have them all over the world. And I think they're. 00:38.38 Andrew They're still bigger. They're actually now bigger overseas than they are in in the US. which is interesting 00:45.15 Sean That's it. 00:45.09 Andrew um we 00:46.87 Sean Sense. 00:47.60 Andrew Yeah. 00:47.49 Sean Ish. Maybe. 00:48.39 Andrew Yeah. 00:48.20 Sean I don't know. 00:48.90 Andrew issue. Um, 00:49.85 Sean Yeah. 00:50.63 Andrew I think. we're from the the cheesemade that i got from people who our repeat attendees is that WordCamp US has been in decline since something happened two years ago. What what might have happened two years ago? I can't remember. 01:06.94 Andrew Amen. any Any big drama in the in the WordPress space? that you can remember? 01:13.39 Sean No. I block that out. 01:15.00 Andrew fifty 01:15.04 Sean From my memory. Um, Yeah, there was a, you know, there's... For some reason, a lot of people who are on WordPress. Um, complaining about something. 01:25.31 Sean And it brought us a lot of Webflow customers. so 01:27.59 Andrew Hell yeah. Let's go. 01:29.99 Sean Um, uh, 01:33.65 Sean Yeah. i'm I'm kind of curious. like like The shockwave that must have been across. I didn't realize there were so many word camps. So I wonder if like... 01:45.34 Sean What happens in all those WordCamps, all the same, like... throughout that entire year that feels 01:51.35 Andrew no I know. 01:51.62 Sean You know? 01:52.74 Andrew um I mean, I got a little bit from my my friends who've been going for years. Okay. 01:57.64 Sean ahha 01:58.98 Andrew Uh, But. Yeah, like WordCamp US used to be like 2 ,000 to 2 ,500 people. They also they scheduled it in Phoenix in August this year, which I think. a lot of people were like i think that's part of the reason it's not doing well although At the same time, in the back of my head, I was like Black Hat and Def Conner in August every year and fuck tons of people go. 02:18.45 Andrew Um. 02:19.80 Sean Yeah. 02:20.06 Andrew So I don't know that that really impacted it. But yeah, this year was like. I think. one of my friends saw the registered attendee list, and it was 900 people. down from like 2 ,500 a few years ago. 02:33.16 Sean Oh shit. God damn. 02:34.28 Andrew Yeah. 02:35.81 Sean Um. 02:36.57 Andrew Not a great sign. 02:37.93 Sean for For those not in. the web space. Um, Um, 02:46.43 Andrew He's... 02:46.39 Sean The... Do you want to, I don't know. 02:48.63 Andrew I got, I got. 02:48.83 Sean You're the expert now, so. 02:50.72 Andrew So I got, I'm not an expert, but. All right. So one of the... original co-creators co-founders of wordpress um I got. 03:01.61 Andrew I got yelled at by a friend, not yelled at, but like I got chastised by a friend for calling him the founder of WordPress. Someone was like. More like the forker of WordPress. um 03:10.74 Sean Hell yeah. 03:14.01 Andrew Um, Uh, Matt. Mullenweg? Is that his name? um Uh... Anyway. WordPress mat. um a couple years ago went Like, got really... pissy at at a Word can. 03:30.22 Andrew during a keynote. Um, at WP Engine, who's like one of the largest WordPress hosts. and a competitor so like it's all complicated because like WordPress is WordPress is... 03:45.18 Andrew a free open source tool. that is owned by a nonprofit. um and the WordPress trademark is owned by a nonprofit. Matt also owns... automatic which is a for-profit business that offer that owns wordpress .com a for-profit WordPress hosting service um and a bunch of other WordPress tools including WooCommerce and Pressable and some others. 04:08.67 Andrew Um, and Um, Automatic. has a like perpetual license from WordPress .org, the nonprofit, to use the WordPress trademark. 04:20.96 Andrew Um, And a couple years ago, he got mad at WP Engine, who's one of their biggest competitors, um who basically built their entire reputation on... 04:32.11 Andrew Hey, your product kind of sucks. We're going to do it better and charge more for it. And people loved them for years and years. Um, I think some people have started to leave WP Engine. I don't know. 04:43.08 Andrew what the state of the things is right now. But like for years and years, people loved WP Engine because they were just like rock solid. Awesome support. And like they charged a premium for it. 04:53.56 Sean And WP Engine also owns... um the custom field the advanced custom fields plugin All right. 05:00.36 Andrew Yes, they own a couple of like very successful WordPress plugins as well. And that got all pissy that they were like, using WP in their name. um that they even though like everyone in the wordpress community uses wp in their name Um, 05:16.26 Andrew They were using WP in their name, and he was like, you're not contributing enough to open source. You're not contributing enough to WordPress .org. and 05:24.72 Sean Open source. Oh, so the name. What I what i call my wallet. 05:28.52 Andrew Yes. 05:29.19 Sean...

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  Episode #75

  Why AI Can't Write Good Content Alone

  Aug 21, 20261h 2m

  Can AI actually write, or is it just remixing what humans already think? A human has to be involved. Right now, robots can't go out and have their own experiences. That's not how LLMs work. In this episode of Small Effort (Season 4, Episode 14), Sean and Andrew cut through the AI-writing hype and land on the uncomfortable truth: good writing is good thinking, and good thinking still comes from humans. They cover where AI writing genuinely helps, where it quietly fails, and why the "AI will replace writers" panic gets the whole thing backwards. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ Slackletter: https://slackletter.com/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/ Margins: http://margins.so/ Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/ .

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  Episode #74

  We Built a Client Site Live on a Sales Call

  May 25, 202654 min

  Sean and Andrew stop by to chat about what happens when you build a client website live on a sales call 20 minutes into the presentation. We get into Andrew's cold outreach restart for MetaMonster, the report card angle they are testing with SEO agencies, and somehow end up debating whether Astro or Next.js is the right call for a SaaS marketing site. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ Slackletter: https://slackletter.com/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/ Margins: http://margins.so/ Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/ . Transcript: 00:01.20 Sean What's up? 00:01.85 Andrew Three, two, Oh, shit. Sorry. ah Awkward. 00:05.68 Sean All good. 00:06.14 Andrew Embarrassing. 00:07.26 Sean All good. Jesus. ah 00:12.34 Andrew Dude, every day that goes by without Metamonster closing a new customer, i just get more and more insecure about my abilities to be a SaaS founder. 00:25.30 Sean Is that like... 00:27.14 Sean Like every day, like you have a sales call and they don't buy right away or like, I see. 00:31.78 Andrew I'm not even like having sales calls is the problem. Yeah, I we we do actually like you know, we've been working on the product when I when I started like breaking it down. 00:43.58 Sean Yeah. 00:44.04 Andrew I'm like, okay, it makes sense. um It's not like that shocking, but I'm still just like, ah like, is there demand for this thing? Are we wasting our time? What's going on? 00:55.96 Andrew ah um but 01:00.21 Andrew Like, so what we're doing right now, I do think the product has gotten a lot better. 01:06.46 Sean Yeah. 01:06.55 Andrew It still, like, has rough edges, but it is, like, it is way better than it used to be. 01:06.56 Sean OK. 01:15.31 Andrew um And um I think it's, like, in a sellable place now. What we're doing right now um is we're trying to spin up cold outreach again and start doing cold outreach. 01:33.04 Andrew um And i think we've gotten clearer on our ICP. I think we've gotten clearer on like the problem we're trying to solve. um And so hopefully clearer on like the kind of signals we can look for to find good fit customers. 01:52.44 Andrew um and so and'm like cautiously optimistic about this round of outreach that like and then jade's also almost officially on board so like i will have her to work with and to like help hold me accountable and i think we make a good team bouncing ideas off of each other and just like pushing building momentum together yeah um they 02:04.33 Sean Nice. 02:13.65 Sean Yeah, wait, didn't last time when we spoke, didn't Jade have like 25 demos lined up though or something like that? 02:23.19 Andrew They haven't really been converting. um She's only done, i think she's done eight or so, and one may turn into a customer. 02:34.04 Andrew um But she also hasn't really been pitching and because they're it's largely just like friends of hers, and so she didn't want to come in pitching too hard. 02:38.21 Sean Yeah. 02:42.84 Andrew It was more like more approaching them from a feedback standpoint. 02:43.16 Sean Right, right. but Yeah, I meant like how is how's the feedback going? 02:49.49 Andrew Feedback has been good, I think. i think But it's it's again, it's that like kind of mom test. it's the kind of It's a lot of feedback that kind of fails the mom test where it's like it's like people like the tool, but they're not adopting the tool. 03:01.93 Sean Hmm. 03:07.44 Andrew um And I think there's like a million reasons that can be. so like one of the one of the simple things that Jade's starting to do is um when people tell her like hey i'm interested in using this she's going to start scheduling a follow-up meeting to be like great why don't you use it for two weeks and then we'll talk again in two weeks and like create some accountability create a little bit of social pressure um and then in that second call i think we can more think she'll feel more comfortable asking for a sale 03:36.05 Sean Right. Right. 03:44.02 Sean Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. 03:45.17 Andrew Yeah, because like at that point, they've shown interest. 03:45.69 Sean Yeah. 03:47.29 Andrew And it's like, OK, now it's time to ask for a sale. 03:47.81 Sean Right. 03:50.23 Andrew um 03:50.31 Sean Right. Right. I mean, at that point, they've like actually, if they've actually used it and found it useful, and if they haven't, it's also useful to just know. 03:57.68 Andrew Figure out why. Try to figure out why. 03:58.76 Sean Yeah. 03:59.50 Andrew Yeah. 04:00.44 Sean Yeah, 04:00.47 Andrew um And then we're trying to, like, it's like, OK, we also need to prove we can get demos outside of her network. And so let's... 04:12.30 Andrew but scale up cold outreach, get that going again. We're doing it manually. When I say scale it up, I just mean, i basically just mean turn it on. I mean, start doing it. 04:22.26 Sean yeah yeah 04:22.96 Andrew um We're not like worried about scale. We're trying to do it very manually, very personably do it. My friend also challenged me to do not just like email or LinkedIn, but cold call people. 04:39.08 Sean Oh, cool. 04:40.31 Andrew Which, which is terrifying, which probably means I should try it. 04:45.20 Sean ah Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I have a cold call video video to send you. like 04:49.72 Andrew Okay. Send it to me. 04:50.52 Sean you know there's a lot of scammy like this is how you cold call people and whatever i forget his name he's now with like a cold calling sas product but like he like live records his cold cold calls about like sas apps or like trucking whatever and like you you hear the guys go like no you or like whatever um like he's using it a demo the platform but like 04:50.76 Andrew Mm-hmm. 04:54.92 Andrew Mm-hmm. 05:01.25 Andrew Mm-hmm. 05:15.12 Sean It's probably one of the better, like repeatable sales motion type things that he follows. And it's, yeah, I want to say the app is called Glen Coco, but I don't remember if I'm just making Uh, 05:29.70 Andrew Isn't Glen Coco like some pop culture reference? 05:33.96 Sean sure. Uh, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Oh yeah. Glenn Coco for, for you, Glenn Coco, you go Glenn Coco. All right. Uh, uh, Mean Girls. 05:43.98 Andrew What's that from? Mean Girls. Okay, that's right. 05:47.04 Sean Um, yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is from, it's yeah, it's Glenn Coco. 05:47.58 Andrew That's right. That's right. 05:53.72 Sean Um, 05:54.35 Andrew Well, he named his app after a Mean Girls reference. 05:56.98 Sean I guess so. I don't know if if it's his app or if he's just, it probabl...

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  Episode #73

  I Built an AI That Thinks For Me

  May 12, 202650 min

  Andrew is back from two weeks of Spanish immersion in Puebla, and the conversation picks up right where it always does. We get into MetaMonster's 100-demo sprint with their new co-founder, why AI keeps producing bad content for founders (and what Sean shipped to fix it), and somehow end up deep in a conversation about outcome-based agency pricing and why it is a finance nightmare in practice. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ Slackletter: https://slackletter.com/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/ Margins: http://margins.so/ Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/ . Transcript: 00:00.41 Sean Welcome back to Mexico City. 00:02.26 Andrew What a 00:06.90 Sean And let's get 00:07.11 Andrew up? I still can't remember how, I still don't know how to say, can never remember how to say like, good to see you. I think it's like, mucho gusto verte, or like, con gusto. 00:20.02 Andrew I think con gusto is like the the simplest way to say it, but... um 00:24.79 Sean con gusto my friend um me amigo um 00:30.58 Andrew Asking Claude, how do I say nice to see you in Mexico? 00:37.71 Andrew I've been using Claude a bunch for, did i have I talked about this in a past episode? 00:40.96 Sean yeah yeah yeah but no it's it's it's good it's like um 00:42.08 Andrew Okay, my bad. 00:46.01 Andrew Que bueno verte, me da gusto verte. Que gusto verte, que gusto verte is the most natural way. Literally, what a pleasure to see you. Que gusto verte. 00:58.77 Sean I feel like that's not a thing people say. I feel like. 01:02.84 Andrew I don't know how often how often people say it yeah 01:08.67 Sean Yeah. Interesting. um how was How was your trip? 01:14.97 Andrew It was awesome. um Just going from using Spanish maybe anywhere from half an hour to like two or three hours a day to using Spanish from 9 nine am until like five every day and then sometimes for another couple hours at night. 01:34.68 Andrew depending on what plans I had with friends and stuff, um was definitely like much needed. Like I felt my vocabulary improving. i felt myself building some confidence, speaking Spanish, getting a little bit more comfortable. 01:50.14 Andrew um Also underscored how much I still don't know and like how far I am from where I actually want to be, which is like kind confusing. good and frustrating at the same time. 02:03.32 Andrew um But overall, really fun and also just nice to see a new part of Mexico. Like, Puebla is really beautiful. um It's a smaller city, a little bit more chill. 02:16.06 Andrew um but has a really beautiful historic center with porticos that reminded me of like the porticos in Bologna in Italy. um And really good food. 02:29.66 Andrew um I ate something and like fucked up my stomach for like a week. So that was a bummer, but also just part of being a gringo living in Mexico. um So it comes with the territory. 02:44.76 Sean You were going for, I want to say it was two weeks, but it feels like it's been a very long time since we've talked. 02:47.10 Andrew Just two weeks. 02:50.35 Sean yeah, I miss you as well. 02:50.68 Andrew Oh, I miss you too. Nah, it was just two weeks. Yeah, but super fun. 02:58.52 Sean Good. Good, good, good. Yeah. That was a good picture from your group. 03:03.93 Andrew Oh, of the of the class. 03:05.53 Sean Yeah, yeah. That's good. 03:06.56 Andrew Yeah, the school does a really good job of like, so you take classes from nine to one every day, and then you have lunch with the other students. um And you're strongly encouraged to speak only in Spanish while you're at the school. 03:21.82 Andrew um So you're you're speaking to other students who are at different levels, but speaking in Spanish. 03:21.96 Sean Nice. 03:28.48 Andrew And then in the afternoons, Monday through Wednesday, you're paired one-on-one with a guide who's just a local. um And you walk around Puebla and go visit museums and tour different parts of the city with your guide. um ah The second Monday I was there, i got two of the other students and their guides to come with me to a board game store and we just played board games and talked in Spanish and it was super fun. 03:57.64 Andrew Muy lindo, very cute. 03:59.72 Sean Nice. 03:59.77 Andrew um And, ah but yeah, so you get like a lot of one-on-one time with your guide. And then on Thursday, you do like a bigger expedition with the group to a city, you know, a small town or city nearby to Puebla. Yeah. 04:15.04 Andrew And then, ah yeah, Friday afternoons you get off. 04:15.40 Sean Nice. 04:18.78 Andrew So, 04:19.82 Sean It's like a full immersion type of thing. I like it. 04:22.43 Andrew yeah, exactly. 04:23.14 Sean Yeah. Cool. 04:24.44 Andrew um Yeah, super fun. 04:25.43 Sean You feel like you are drastically better at speaking the language now? 04:31.52 Andrew No, I would not say drastically better. um I would say... 04:36.90 Andrew marginally better. Like definitely, like i like I said, like definitely improved my vocab and my confidence, but like still two weeks just isn't enough to like for a drastic change. 04:46.47 Sean Right, right. 04:47.76 Andrew I, um yeah, i I need, I wish I could have spent 04:49.21 Sean Gotcha. 04:55.55 Andrew you know, two months there, because I think that would have been the kind of time I need to, like, really take a step forward. um Although I found this funny thing. i've I've spent some time on the language learning subreddit over the last, like, six months or whatever. 05:11.77 Andrew And I found this funny joke where like every level thinks they're six months away from being fluent. Like every level of speaker is like, yeah, with like six more months of study, I'll be fluent. 05:21.25 Sean Yeah. 05:23.68 Andrew And it's like, you also just realize the more you learn, like, and Fluent is not easy to define and is kind of a shifting goalpost. um There's like true native speaker fluency. And then there's like, you know, understanding scientific terms. And um so like, you know, I think my goal is just conversational fluency, like be able to meet people who speak with a slightly different accent and not panic and like ah be able to like hang out in a crowd of like, you know, locals and like carry a conversation without being super stressed or watch a movie in Spanish and understand it without subtitles. 06:12.37 Sean Cool. 06:15.19 Sean Cool. 06:19.13 Sean My brain's going into, like I forget what it's called, but there's like, a I don't know this is like i don't know if this is for like all languages, but like there's something like from what I understand, but Japanese, there's like an N1 or N2. 06:31.96 Andrew...

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  Episode #72

  Why AI Makes It Harder to Ship Good Products

  Apr 22, 202650 min

  Andrew and Sean dig into Clawdgate, the growing developer complaints that Anthropic has been quietly throttling Claude's default thinking power after locking in enterprise deals. They also get into Sean's Salvo orchestration system, why waterfall specs do not work even with AI, and why scope creep is the silent killer hiding inside every AI coding workflow. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/ Slackletter: https://slackletter.com/ Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/ Margins: http://margins.so/ Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/ For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/ . Transcript: 00:00.76 Sean What is up? My phone is gigantic. 00:02.84 Andrew I want to throw Claude out of the window. 00:06.04 Sean Why? What's going on? How dare you speak about my boy, Claude? 00:13.07 Andrew Have you seen all the chatter online? Like there, I don't know if it's like just my feed or what, but I'm seeing a bunch of people complaining about Claude getting worse. 00:15.63 Sean Yeah. 00:23.62 Andrew Like, uh, and like the, the hypothesis I've seen is that, that, um, 00:23.98 Sean Totally. 00:30.65 Andrew is that Anthropic has been kind of throttling down Claude's default thinking power, or like like basically how much time and resources it spends thinking to save money. 00:45.99 Andrew like they The theory is that they like used the masses to get people excited and build hype for Claude so they could sell enterprise deals. And now that they've got the enterprise deals, they're like throttling down how good Claude is for the masses by default. 01:03.27 Andrew but But I think you can still like adjust the settings to get it back to where it was. i haven't really tried to tinker with it. 01:10.37 Sean You gotta make an ultra think, man. You gotta turn on ultra think. 01:15.65 Andrew Wait, is that a thing? Is that a setting, UltraThink? Or is this... 01:21.16 Sean If you type in ultra think, something will happen. But I think it's just called slash effort max now, not ultra think. 01:26.29 Andrew yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:27.67 Andrew yeah 01:28.95 Sean maybe ultra think is still a thing though I'm not super sure I know that all of Facebook uses ultra think do you see that Facebook's and internally has a competition of like how like they're all token maxing because there's a leaderboard of how many tokens you're burning and one guy's burnt like 01:44.88 Andrew Is this why people are like making fun of, I've seen a bunch of people talking about how stupid it is to like reward people for like maximizing tokens. 01:52.34 Sean yeah 01:53.92 Andrew Is this where this is coming from? 01:55.41 Sean Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. 100% it is. Yeah. But have you turned on your Claude buddy? Do you have your Claude buddy yet? 02:05.24 Andrew So no, is this, is this like a default cloud thing or is it something you have to install? 02:08.36 Sean Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, Claude code, just type in slash buddy. You got like a random buddy. I got a common turtle. his name is His name is Flukish, but I like to call him fuckish. 02:23.08 Sean he' He's kind of an asshole. Like, it tells you, like, a personality rating, and it's, like, everything else is not helpful. Like, ability to debug, like, zero. Ability to whatever, zero. Snarky, 95. Yeah. 02:36.12 Andrew So sounds like you, they they cloned you. 02:37.69 Sean yeah I know. 02:39.68 Andrew they somehow just interpreted you. 02:42.32 Sean I'm just a common turtle, man. 02:43.62 Sean Hmm. 02:44.22 Andrew and So I use i exclusively use Claude inside of Conductor. And so I've never actually like looking directly at the Claude metal. Like I'm not and the Claude code interface. 02:55.56 Andrew I'm always seeing it inside of just the sort of conductor wrapping. 02:58.95 Sean Yeah. Yeah. 03:02.35 Andrew Austin was just showing me a version, like an yet another 03:07.92 Sean Yeah. 03:08.88 Andrew uh one of these things it's called superset which is apparently like conductor but you're more you're getting more of the direct cloud code experience which i don't know if i need or want 03:13.18 Sean Oh, I saw that. Yeah, yeah. 03:23.47 Sean Yeah. 03:25.69 Andrew But yeah, what i have also i have not tinkered with my like default fault Clawed settings at all. 03:25.81 Sean Yeah. 03:35.42 Andrew like i I haven't done the EffortMax thing yet. I haven't messed around with my ClawedMD file. I've just been like just been rolling with with what I get out of the box. Austin also raves about a set of skills called superpowers that I heard Ian Lanceman talking about some recently too. 03:56.24 Sean Have you seen people talk about like impeccable? Okay. 03:59.16 Andrew Oh, is this the is this kind of like the UI? 03:59.36 Sean U-I-S-H. 04:02.80 Andrew Well, I still don't, yeah, so no one knows what UiASH is going to actually be, but it seems like similar vibes. 04:03.00 Sean Yeah. yeah 04:10.84 Sean Yeah, someone... i saw a post yesterday about someone talking about how, like, a before and after they got to use UISH. 04:19.21 Andrew Oh, sick. Yeah, I guess maybe they've started rolling out some invites, but it's still pretty small. 04:20.21 Sean Yeah, yeah. 04:24.92 Sean Yeah, it just looks like it knows how to use Tailwind. 04:29.41 Andrew It's, yeah. I'm curious how they're going to charge for it, how they're going to charge for UISH, because if it is just a set of skills, it seems like that's going to be a hard thing to charge an ongoing subscription for, because like once people have the skills and 04:30.51 Sean Yeah. 04:33.07 Sean Yeah. 04:46.68 Andrew Unless the skills the skill files, unless you never actually get access to the skill files, it's like all remote. 04:53.42 Sean That's terrible. I would not use, I would not use that. That's like, I would just, yeah. 04:57.49 Andrew Yeah, it seems like it would be really slow. 05:00.10 Sean oh So I don't know how you would stop it from like just me going or just me going rebuild yourself, you know? 05:02.79 Andrew Downloading the files. 05:08.24 Andrew Yeah. 05:08.53 Sean Yeah. yeah 05:10.96 Andrew i It seems like there's gonna be a piece beyond, because I've also heard them talking about it kind of like a tool, so I'm wondering if there's more to it than just skill files. 05:21.94 Sean Maybe it's like, you know how like a lot of those like styled component libraries have like theme creators. I mean, you can download it. Maybe it's like you get access to that. You get to like theme tailwind and you download it as like a specialized skill just for you. 05:36.66 Andrew Maybe.

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