LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP

Stories of leadership told by the leaders of character who lived them. This is how the Air Force Academy experience shaped their past, present and future. Long Blue Leadership is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation.

LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP is a education podcast hosted by Unknown Host, with 62 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80.

Unknown Host hosts LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP, a education show with 62 episodes published.

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  Episode #61

  No Excuses - Scott Kirby ’89

  Sep 29, 202653 min

  Scott Kirby ’89 grew one of the world’s largest airlines by doing something many leaders struggle with: changing his mind. “When the facts change, I change.” SUMMARY From anticipating the impact of COVID before most experts to making bold bets when others pulled back, Kirby shares why adaptability, curiosity and a willingness to challenge assumptions are essential leadership traits. SCOTT'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Lead with Vision, Not Just Management Management ensures compliance; leadership inspires people to believe in a shared destination. Practice “No Excuses” Whether or not a setback is fair or your fault, take responsibility for addressing it. Build a Complementary Team Bring in people whose strengths offset your weaknesses. Look for Intellectual Creativity. Seek people who can simplify complex situations and find better ways to do things. Change Your Mind When the Facts Change Don’t cling to an old position just because you’ve already committed to it. Take Calculated Risks — and Plan Your Off-ramps. Pursue opportunities when the potential reward outweighs the risk, while preparing alternatives if things go wrong. Keep Learning Reading across subjects and viewpoints can help you connect ideas others may miss. Make Space to Think Protect time for reflection and decision-making instead of filling every day with meetings. Listen to Understand, Not Just to Agree. Invite input, especially from more junior people, and make sure the team feels heard — even when you choose a different path. Stay Open to Unexpected Opportunities Love Your Work A rigid career plan can make you miss a path you might find more meaningful. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 — Introduction: Scott Kirby and the “no excuses” principle 00:01:18 — Arriving at the U.S. Air Force Academy and aspiring to become a fighter pilot 00:03:13 — Childhood, family and the opportunities that shaped Kirby 00:06:40 — Leadership versus management — and building a shared vision at United 00:10:24 — Choosing a complementary executive team and practicing “no excuses” 00:15:05 — Accountability, empathy and doing the right thing 00:18:18 — Changing course when facts shift: lessons from COVID and other crises 00:22:14 — Calculated risk, off-ramps and United’s pandemic-era aircraft orders 00:26:35 — Reading widely, connecting ideas and questioning experts 00:33:11 — Applying lessons from books to suppliers and company culture 00:37:37 — United’s next vision: using technology and AI to reduce travel stress 00:43:23 — Career advice, family life and making time for what matters 00:47:06 — Listening, inviting dissent and closing remarks ABOUT SCOTT BIO Scott Kirby ’89 is CEO of United Airlines and a longtime leader in the commercial aviation industry. He joined United in 2016 as president and was named CEO in 2020. Before joining United, Kirby served as president of American Airlines and US Airways and held leadership positions at America West Airlines. He began his career at the Pentagon after graduating from the U.S. Air Force Academy with degrees in computer science and operations research and later earned a master’s degree in operations research from George Washington University. Throughout his career, Kirby has developed a leadership approach grounded in analytical thinking, accountability, adaptability and trust. He credits the U.S. Air Force Academy with instilling discipline and a “no excuses” mindset that continues to shape how he leads, while his early work alongside experienced economists at the Pentagon helped develop the problem-solving approach he carried into aviation. As United’s CEO, Kirby emphasizes listening to employees closest to the work, building teams with complementary strengths and creating an organization its employees are proud to represent. CONNECT WITH SCOTT KIRBY LINKEDIN | UNITED AIRLINES CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. Ryan Hall | Director: Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org ALL PAST LBL EPISODES | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Scott Kirby ’89, CEO United Airlines | Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:02 Scott Kirby has been known to make a hard right when everyone else has turned left. But today’s lesson isn’t just about going against the grain. It’s about weighing possibilities, challenging assumptions and being ready to change your mind if the facts shift. His guiding leadership principle: no excuses. I’m Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. Long Blue Leadership starts now. I’m joined today with Scott Kirby, USAFA Class of ’89, CEO of United Airlines. Prior to joining United, he was the president of American Airlines and U.S. Airways, which spans now a career of 30 years in the airline industry. We’re going to talk about that. His early days were at the Pentagon in operations research, working with some of the most brilliant economists, which probably shapes some of the way you do things today. But you can see he’s Team Air Force today. Scott Kirby 0:53 Exactly. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:53 We’ve got matching bombers on. Scott Kirby 0:54 Looking good. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:56 That’s right. So we’re going to have some fun today. Thank you for being here. Scott Kirby 0:58 Glad to be here. Looking forward to it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:00 Wonderful. So this is not new to you. You were on so many interviews: Bloomberg, CNBC, Face the Nation, all of that, and you’re the expert in the room on aviation and leadership. Today, we want to take a little bit more and peel more into your personal leadership journey. So I’d like to start, Scott, in the summer of 1985. Tell me about the young man who showed up in Colorado Springs. Scott Kirby 1:21 It’s a very different person. I was 17 years old. I had decided for many years before that I wanted to be a fighter pilot, and so I came here intending to be a fighter pilot. Amazingly, the first time I ever got on an airplane was when I flew here to the Air Force Academy. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:37 Oh, wow! Scott Kirby 1:38 I’d never set foot on an airplane before that. I do remember landing at the Colorado Springs Airport. I don’t know what they do now, but back then, there were cadets, upperclassmen, that met you off the airplane. I think they waited until they got to the bus to start screaming. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:52 They were still smiling then at the airport, probably. Scott Kirby 1:54 Yeah, I don’t really, I don’t remember that. But I remember being on the bus and like, “Holy cow, what is going on?” And then getting dumped out, you know, getting dumped in here. But, and you know, the first couple weeks were a shock to the system, were hard. But, you know, it was probably within the first week or two you start to realize that the people that you’re meeting and the experiences you’re going through, just basic training and out in Jacks Valley, are going to be— you know, maybe I didn’t realize it then, but the people that are the best friends, you know, still my best friends and, you know, I like, last weekend went to breakfast with my freshman roommate. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:35 Oh, I love that. Scott Kirby 2:36 One of my favorite stories at United Airlines when I first showed up, I would do, I still do, in fact, I’m doing one later today — captain leadership. I go talk to all the captains when they upgrade to captain and at the back of the room was someone that I recognized. But you know, I meet so many people, and he walked up to me and he says, "Do you remember me?” And I recognized him, but I hadn’t immediately placed him. I looked down and saw Braxton, and like, “Braxton, we were at Jacks Valley together!” You know, and so you know the connections you make with people is one of the best things, you know, about here, and the experiences that you go through are so unique compared to what other people do. And you know that’s how it started for me in summer of ’85. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:13 Oh my goodness, I love that. And I’m imagining, you know, coming to the Air Force Academy. You said you want to be a fighter pilot, so obviously that was something in your, you know, you’re aspiring for. As a young boy, were you always into things like, you know, going fast, you know sports? Like, what were you like as a boy? Scott Kirby 3:29 Yeah, I think— I like, I love sports. Before I decided I was going to be a fighter pilot, I thought I was going to be a professional athlete. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:38 OK. Which sport? It didn’t matter? Scott Kirby 3:41 I preferred football, but I like all sports. But, you know, I realized I wasn’t going to be a professional athlete earlier than I realized I wasn’t going to be a fighter pilot. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:51 Sometimes it’s good to learn things early. Scott Kirby 3:52 But, yeah. But I guess, I mean, I did always like— I’ve always been aggressive, I guess. You say go fast, but aggressive. And I grew up in a small town, Rowlett, Texas. I had two great parents. Like, I have the jackpot on parents. A mom, we had five brothers and sisters, but you know, she didn’t work and stayed home. And, like, her life— I remember in fourth grade, a teacher told me that she was going to call my mom because I was arguing with the teacher, and I told her, "Well, you can, but you’re the one that’s going to be in trouble,” which is what happened. My dad spent every weekend with me, you know, out hunting, fishing, golfing. The amount of time they gave was pretty incredible. And then my mom, after the kids got older, at age 40, went back to college and graduated summa cum laude law school and became a lawyer. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:42 Amazing! I think that’s always like, it’s always— there’s always the right time to continue to learn and grow. Well, you know, I’ve listened to you recently on a couple of things, and you had mentioned not too long ago that America— I heard you talk about, you love our country, right? We have the best country, and its superpower is freedom, and because it unlocks human potential. Can we jump in, Scott? What’s your superpower, by the way, and how have you unlocked that? Scott Kirby 5:07 I’ll start with the country. It’s unique in the history of human experience. I’m an avid reader. I love history. That’s how I wound up wanting to be a fighter pilot. I love reading about World War II. And, you know, you just read and study or look at what’s happened around the world. In history and today, it is a unique place. It’s— nothing like it has ever existed anywhere around the globe. It’s freedom. It is the place where anyone can do anything, unlike others. And look, some people, it’s harder for some. People start with advantages and disadvantages, but it has more opportunity than anywhere else around the globe. By the way, I think of my own responsibility as giving opportunity to people, and I often tell people like, "We’ll help you get to the first rung on the ladder. From there, it’s going to be up to you.” Right. But I think we have an obligation to help people get to that first rung and give people a chance and really realize the opportunity of this country. And being here at the Academy earlier today, I was up speaking to cadets, and you know it’s inspirational. And I spent a lot of time in D.C. a lot of times with reporters. A lot of these people are sort of pessimists and negative about the country and about the future, and I’m an optimist, and I believe in the country, and I tell often tell them, and I can say it after being there again today, if you just go spend a day at one of the military academy with, you know, 4,000 young men and women who’ve raised their hand and volunteered to serve the country, you’d have faith in the future. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:38 Right, you can’t help but be optimistic. Scott Kirby 6:40 Exactly. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:40 Wow. So pulling on that that superpower of the country, I think about, you know, all of the lives that you have the opportunity— the ability to create opportunities for at United. What would you say is your superpower, and how do you turn that on at United? Scott Kirby 6:53 You know, I think— well, I’m talking about myself, but I think I’m a good leader and I realize that people often confuse management and leadership. They think they’re the same thing, and they are two totally different things. Management is about compliance. It’s about checklists. It’s about, “Did you show up to work on time? Did you go through the checklist?” It’s really important, by the way, especially for our pilots. It’s incredibly important. You do a lot of checklists. Air Force does a lot of checklists. It’s really important. But leadership is about how you make people feel. It’s about inspiration and vision. And, you know, I’m just one person at the 120,000-employee company, but if I can get 120,000 people believing in where we’re going and wanting to go there with me, it’s incredibly powerful. And then they take care of everything else. And so, the job of a leader is actually pretty easy. The job of a leader is to make people, to inspire people, and get them to believe in the vision and where you’re headed, and if you do that, they’re going to take care of everything else. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:51 And that sounds wonderful. So I want to pull on how we do that because, you know, when you stepped into United, you know, the years ago, I would say you probably had to create that vision. And so when we think about a lot of our listeners and viewers that are in that context of how do I create that, where did you start? Where did you start first to build that vision and inspiration? Scott Kirby 8:08 You know, so I came to United— I knew a lot about United without having been there. It’s funny: When I first got to United, an investor told me that, you know, 15 or 20 years earlier, when I was young in my career, people thought I was an up-and-comer, investors. And I was on an elevator with some of them. Somebody asked me, like— and I was at American West, like, small little America West. “So if you could go to any airline in the world, you know, where would you go?” And I didn’t remember this, but I said United Airlines because it has the most untapped potential. I just thought it was undermanaged, and, you know, had incredible potential, but had been poorly run. And so when I got there, I, like— I’ve the vision that, like, where we are today is just over 10 years since I’ve been there. Where we are today is, like, where I thought we would be in 10 years, and, you know, I said it to people when I first got there. What people often tell me today is, like, they could say, “I remember, like, you coming in, you telling us where we were going to go, and I thought, ‘Well that’s nice for him to say,’ and, ‘Boy, I wish that was true.’” But, like, they’d been there for a long time. They’d seen all the failed promises, and like, there’s no way that’s going to actually happen. But it actually has. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:13 That’s right. Scott Kirby 9:14 And so, the sort of, the underlying like where the airline would be, I, you know, there’s been additions and modifications, but the general direction was the same. What I think I underappreciated was how powerful it would be to get employees believing in that future. I believed in it, you know? I didn’t— but I didn’t fully appreciate, you know, how much untapped the potential was, how much desire there was to be on the winning team, to be the best. And when they started realizing it was possible and that it was happening, and then it happened, like it’s just, it’s fun and it — and they do amazing things for customers, and, you know, they want to keep winning, and it’s, you know, it’s a flywheel that just keeps getting better and better and better. The more you win, the more you want to win, the harder you’re willing to work. And I knew that that was important, but I didn’t really understand, I think, how much untapped— I knew how much untapped potential was in the route network. I didn’t know how much untapped potential there really was in the people, but that’s been even bigger. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:24 Exponentially, when you think about that. And so I think about, you know, when you said a little bit ago that, you know, you have like the easiest job, right? Because you’re making, like, the big decisions that only you can make. But I’m curious on how do you then choose, maybe, like, your executive team around you? Because they are the ones making those decisions, I think, that are affecting that human potential. How do you do that? Scott Kirby 10:45 So, the first thing I’d say is, I’ve learned that you’ve got to have complementary skills. I have weaknesses, and I need people that complement those weaknesses. If everyone was like me, like I always have, I have lots of ideas, and “let’s do this,” and I’m sort of missing the risk gene in some ways. If everyone was like me, we’d do some amazing stuff together and then we’d probably drive off a cliff. So I need some people that are complementary. And there’s things that I hate to do, like the compliance stuff. Like, I hate it. It’s important to do. Like, we have to have an audit committee. God, I hate going to audit committee. I hope not— Michelle, please don’t listen to this. Michelle, please don’t listen to this. She knows I don’t like it. But I need people that are complementary, so that’s point one. And then I’m going to say two other things. No. 2 is I have absolute requirement that everyone on my executive team buys into “no excuses.” I think it is the most important lesson I learned as a cadet. It is perhaps the most important life lesson you can learn. Bad stuff is going to happen in your life, in your career, in business. Often not your fault. Sometimes not fair. Often not fair. It is irrelevant whether it’s your fault, whether it’s fair or not. Irrelevant. It’s your responsibility to overcome it. And if you can have that mentality, you can just do anything. And, you know, like people can come to me and say, "I have a huge problem. This is happening. I don’t even know how to fix it.” And I’m going to be with them to try to help and try to figure it out and fix it. But you cannot come to me and make excuses, you know? And my previous employer, the person that was the chief operating officer at the time, I had banned him from using the word “weather” in my presence. Just couldn’t use it because it’s just too easy of an excuse. And so one requirement is that you buy into the no excuses philosophy, and then a second thing that I, another thing that I really value that I think is probably the most rare talent, is true intellectual creativity, and by that I mean being able to look at a situation, simplify it, and say, "Can we do this better?” But those two go together. People that can do that are also really good at looking at things and seeing them simply, instead of making things incredibly complicated. Looking at the world through a simpler lens and figuring out how to do it better, and not everyone does that. Not everyone on my team can do that. You know, I think it’s like one in 1,000 people that can do that and do it well. And you need a few. You don’t need tons of those people around, but you need a few of those people around to drive kind of creativity. But mostly, I try to build a good team. That complementary point goes back: a team that works well together. I’ll say another thing that I do that’s I think different than most is my executive team: We meet three times a week for two, we have two hours scheduled three times a week, and, you know, together. We’re not doing P

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  Episode #1

  The Next Giant Leap - NASA Deputy Administrator Col. (Ret.) Matt Anderson ’97

  Sep 15, 202644 min

  America’s next giant leap will require more than rockets. It will require leaders. SUMMARY Long Blue Leadership Now welcomes NASA Deputy Administrator Col. (Ret.) Matt Anderson ’97, who shares the vision behind the proposed United States Space Academy and its potential role in preparing astronauts, engineers, scientists, operators and innovators for the challenges ahead. From the moon to Mars and beyond, Deputy Administrator Anderson shares how America can build the talent pipeline needed to lead in space for decades to come. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Opening & Guest Introduction Col. Walkewicz introduces Long Blue Leadership Now, frames the conversation, and presents Col. Anderson’s background and new role with the presidential commission on the U.S. Space Academy. 00:01:16 – Academy Roots & Early Aspirations Col. Anderson reflects on coming to the U.S. Air Force Academy, family influence and his original plan to be a doctor. 00:02:23 – First F‑16 Ride & Career Pivot Col. Anderson’s formative F‑16 flight at Luke Air Force Base, getting sick and deciding to pursue pilot training instead of medicine. 00:03:07 – Executive Order: What Was Just Created? Explanation of the executive order, why it says “federal academy” not “service academy,” and the historical parallel to the creation of the Air Force Academy. 00:05:09 – Three Pillars of Space & Commercial Boom Col. Anderson breaks down national security space, civil space (NASA), and commercial space, with examples like Starlink and launch/observation/communications. 00:07:48 – Opportunity & Access: Who Gets to Serve? How the Space Academy may open doors for talented Americans who can’t serve in uniform (e.g., medical disqualifiers) but want to contribute through NASA and civil service. 00:09:35 – What a U.S. Space Academy Adds Beyond Existing Academies Contrast with current service academies, focus on broader roles (astronauts, civil servants, scientists, entrepreneurs, operators, warfighters) and parallels to Merchant Marine Academy and Coast Guard Academy. 00:11:42 – New Majors for a Space Future Why fields like astrobiology, heliophysics and nuclear engineering are critical; the Nancy Grace Roman and Hubble space telescopes; AI-driven data analysis and preparing for lunar/Mars missions. 00:15:30 – The 120‑Day Commission & 2028 Target The nine mandated lines of effort, the tight 120‑day (target 90‑day) timeline, the December deadline and the goal of having the first class arrive in summer 2028. 00:17:35 – Core Values, Civic Mindset & Space Leadership How core values and civic-minded service will be baked into the Space Academy, aligning with but distinct from traditional military academies. 00:20:23 – Governance, Commission Members & NASA’s Role Who’s around the table (NASA, DoW leadership, White House staff), Col. Anderson’s “quarterback” role and NASA’s central responsibility as the civilian-led space agency. 00:22:42 – Matt’s Leadership Edge & Vision for 50 Years Out Col. Anderson’s unique blend of biology, aeronautics and space experience; mental toughness for extreme environments; and how Space Academy grads will shape a competitive future in space vs. China and others 00:35:34 – Growing NASA’s Risk Culture & Closing Reflections Offsite in Bozeman (skydiving, fighter flights), teaching leaders to understand astronaut risk, daily leadership habits, core values, work ethic, guidance for young leaders, public input and closing thanks. ABOUT MATT ANDERSON BIO Col. (Ret.) Matt Anderson is the 16th deputy administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The president of the United States nominated him for the position on Jan. 13, 2026, and he was confirmed by the Senate on May 18, 2026. Col. Anderson grew up on U.S. Air Force bases around the world as the second of three sons of Paul and Patricia Anderson. Paul served as a chaplain in the Air Force and Patricia served as a schoolteacher. After graduating from high school in New Jersey, Col. Anderson attended the U.S. Air Force Academy where he earned a Bachelor of Science in biology and served as the team captain of its nationally ranked Division I soccer team. He later earned a Master of Science in aeronautical science and a Master of Arts in leadership and counseling. Col. Anderson is a decorated Air Force command pilot in multiple aircraft with more than 5,000 flight hours, including more than 650 in combat. He commanded the U.S. Department of War’s only nuclear airlift squadron and served as a senior United States Air Force fellow at the George C. Marshall Center in Garmisch, Germany. Throughout his 24-year Air Force career, he served on several senior DoW staffs and commanded at multiple levels before retiring in 2021. Since retiring from military service, Col. Anderson has served as the chief operating officer and chief growth officer at the Space Force Association and as a vice president at CACI International. Originally from Colorado Springs, Colorado, Col. Anderson and his wife, Christine, are proud parents of two daughters, Kayla and Lauren. Outside of work, he is an avid snow skier, golfer and hiker, and he is currently pursuing his A-license in skydiving. CONNECT WITH MATT LINKEDIN | NASA CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: ted.robertson@usafa.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ryan Hall | Director: ryan.hall@usafa.org Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: bryan.grossman@usafa.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: wyatt.hornsby@usafa.org ALL PAST LBL EPISODES | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS FULL TRANSCRIPT Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:04 This is Long Blue Leadership Now — timely conversations with our leaders that are shaping what happens next. I’m Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ‘99, and I’m joined by Matt Anderson, Class of 1997, NASA’s deputy administrator, and our new executive director of the Presidential Commission of the United States Space Academy. We’re here today because on Aug. 28, the president of the United States signed an executive order creating the commission, beginning the process of establishing a new federal academy focused on developing America’s next space leaders. As you can imagine, this announcement has generated a lot of interest and plenty of questions, and we’re going to talk about that today. Matt Anderson is a retired colonel from our Air Force, serving 24 years as a command pilot and leader. He logged over 5,000 hours, over 650 of those in combat. His career spans time in U.S. Transportation Command, Northern Command and Space Command. After retiring from active duty, Matt went on to lead as an expert in the aerospace industry as well as the Space Force Association. From there, he became NASA’s 16th deputy administrator, and he’s with us here today. Matt, thank you for being here. The Hon. Col. (Ret.) Matt Anderson 1:16 Man, I’m honored to be here. Thank you for having me. This is awesome. I appreciate it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:19 Oh my goodness, and it’s so timely, and I’m sure everyone’s ready for us to jump right in. But before we talk about an academy that will exist in the future, let’s start with the one that formed us right here at the Air Force Academy. So, Matt, you’re ’97 graduate. Let’s hear it. Col. Matt Anderson 1:31 Keep it revvin’. Keep it revvin’. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:33 Keep it revvin’. Yes, soccer team captain. You know, biology major. Did you see yourself in NASA today? Like, did you already know this was going to happen? Col. Matt Anderson 1:42 No, definitely not. No, definitely did not. I just kind of followed my passions like a lot of us did. And my dad was an Air Force officer for years and graduated from New Jersey at the time, McGuire Air Force Base, and was looking at schools out there, and then came on a recruiting trip, like many of us did for sports or other reasons, out to beautiful Colorado Springs. And I showed up — I’m like, “Man, I hope I get into this place because this is where I want to go.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:08 Oh, that’s amazing. So you had a little bit of kind of background. You wanted to come here. You know, when you went to the Academy, did it really kind of start to formulate some possibilities in your mind at that time, or was it just the path that your career took you, you know, post-Academy? Col. Matt Anderson 2:23 Yeah, it sure did. When I was in high school, I was like, “I want to be a doctor.” Whenever we got to dissect things in class in high school and middle school, I was like, “That’s what I want to do.” So, came to the Air Force Academy. I was like, “I’m going to be a biology major because that’s the path to being a doctor.” And then spring break of my freshman year, went to Luke Air Force Base and got an F-16 ride. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:41 Ah, and it changed. Col. Matt Anderson 2:42 Yeah, to be honest, I threw up all over the place. And I went with one of my classmates who is now a major general, Rick Goodman, the J3 down at Central Command. We both threw up, and he ends up being a fighter pilot, a Thunderbird pilot. Now he’s a two-star general. We both got sick. It was awesome and miserable at the same time. I left spring break, going, “The doctor thing is going to have to wait. I’m going to go to pilot training,” and was lucky enough to do that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:06 Well, what an amazing career! When I talked about your career earlier, kind of how it spanned so many different facets. I think it really puts you in a unique position to be able to tackle this. And so maybe we should just jump right in. You know, we talked about this executive order. Can you share a little bit more? What does it actually establish? Let’s just kind of, you know, bring that forward for everybody. Col. Matt Anderson 3:25 Yeah, executive orders aren’t new with administrations. It’s a way to look at what the nation needs, and this one is exactly what you said. It’s an executive order to establish a commission, and the commission is to look at the possibility and what it would take to establish a new federal academy. And the executive order used those exact words. It said a federal academy, not a service academy. So I think people, if they have questions, I really encourage them to go out and read the executive order. It’s very well written. The first paragraph kind of lays out the why and what it’s trying to do, and it specifically left out the words service academy. So while the president envisions it, and he talked about it in his speech, I think it was fantastic. His view of our service academies is so high. He just talks about the beauty of the land, the architecture, everything about it, and he goes, “I envision the new space academy to be on par or better than those.” And the reality is we haven’t established a new academy— this is the longest gap in our history that we’ve had between academies, if you look at it. And those academies were created throughout history for different reasons and we find ourselves in a space right now that, I think, ironically— if you look back, in 1947, the Air Force breaks away from the Army and they call it the Army Air Corps. And the nation is in what? The Cold War with the Soviet Union. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:35 That’s right. Col. Matt Anderson 4:36 And we’re like, “We have got to establish this new air domain, its own service. It’s going to be so important.” So Air Force breaks away from the Army. Was there controversy back then? Of course there was. Of course there was controversy. But what happened seven years after that? In 1954, legislation was passed to establish the United States Air Force Academy. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:54 Here we are. Col. Matt Anderson 4:56 Seven years afterwards, and that was done in April of ’54. So you’re like, OK, it takes a while for you get a commission, legislation, appropriations. But back then, 15 months later, the first class of the Air Force Academy entered class. Summer ’55. So now you look where we’re at today. Almost seven years ago, the Space Force broke away from the Air Force. So the same exact timeline back in the ’40s, and seven years later, now we’re looking at a legislation to establish the newest academy. So it’s very similar timelines for very similar reasons. There’s a need for it. There’s a global need for a space academy. Now, is it different with this EO that we’re seeing today? Yeah, it’s not a Space Force Academy. It’s the United States Space Academy. So when you look at the EO, it talks about what do we need to continue to have American leadership in space, and we did not have rockets launching every other day even 10 years ago. So today we’ve got American rockets launching from American soil literally every other day, and this commercial— so when we think about space, we think about national security space. There’s kind of like three pillars: national security space. So people think Space Force, National Reconnaissance Office, the intelligence community. That’s national security space. Then you have civil space, so civilian space. That’s NASA. That’s what we do. And there’s very clear title— just like we have Title 10 and Title 50 and Title 51 for NASA. There’s U.S. code that says you will do this, you will do this. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:21 Very clear. Col. Matt Anderson 6:22 It’s very clear. So folks are concerned about blurring lines between civilian space and national security space, and you know we’re following the law. We have very clear lines there. But that third one is what has really been booming lately. And if you talk to junior high kids and kids in high school, it’s commercial space. Commercial space, and we have lots of Academy grads that are leading in commercial space. So when I say commercial space, what does that mean? Because people have different definitions. In other words, how do you make money as a company without a government customer? So if NASA is not paying for your stuff, if the Space Force isn’t paying for your stuff, can you make money just like every other company in the United States? Can you make money on your own? Are there other customers that will pay for those services? And the reality is, there is today. If you think about launch, so launching rockets for Starlink was a good example. So launch, observation and communication. Those are the three categories right now where we see lots of money being made, and what we hope to do is unlock another economy, like an orbital economy, a lunar economy on the moon. And when we look forward, these academies have always been throughout history— we have to look forward. You know, Wayne Gretzky always had a very famous quote. He says, "I don’t skate to where the puck is now. I skate to where it’s going to be.” And that’s why he was the greatest hockey player ever. That’s what this academy’s doing. This is looking at the future. We’re not trying to solve today. We’re trying to keep ahead of the world and continue American leadership in space, so we’re fired up. If you can’t tell… Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Well, I was actually just going to say— so first off, that was a fantastic explanation. I think it was really helpful for you to share the different pillars of space, just to kind of for us to wrap our heads around it. And what I was going to ask you next— I could tell that you’re excited. Like, what most excites you about this? Col. Matt Anderson 8:03 The thing that excites me, and the executive order actually addresses it is, this is going to open up new opportunities for Americans and for people to serve in a different capacity. We all know— I have a daughter who could not go to the Air Force Academy because she has a cashew and pistachio allergy. I’ve got friends that maybe have other diagnoses where they want to be patriots, they want to serve their nation, but military service for whatever reason— medically they’re not able to do it. This is an option to serve as a civilian in NASA or another civil servant position in our in our country that is related to space. And if, as the executive order says, if they choose to go into a national security role like the Space Force or the NRO or something like that, the executive order asks us to look at that. What would that look like? But it is clearly— it is a NASA civilian-led organization. NASA that’s leading this executive order, so that’s kind of how we see the plan. But I’m most excited— there’s a lot of kids in high school and junior high that are watching this excitement. They’re watching Starship take off and land with a chopstick catching it, and boosters coming down on a Falcon Heavy right next to each other. They’re like, “I want to be part of that.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:06 And now they can. Col. Matt Anderson 9:07 They can. This is an opportunity where it’s different than a civilian institution. You can go to the U.S. Space Academy and, hey, you have a guaranteed job at NASA when you graduate. That’s worth something. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:18 Got me excited. Col. Matt Anderson 9:19 That’s worth something. And they’re like, “Oh, I want to be an astronaut one day. Well, maybe the way I work my way to be an astronaut is I work in NASA.” That’s not a crazy concept to work in NASA, understand the organization, get trained in undergrad, and then one day maybe be an astronaut. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:35 So maybe this is a question that tees from that pretty well. What then would this federal academy do that our current, you know, service academies aren’t doing? The Air Force Academy specifically, right? We do create Space Force officers that do have, I think, to your point, a focus on that. What will this actually solve? Col. Matt Anderson 9:55 Yeah, I think it solves a lot of challenges. So when you think about a military academy, so right now about 10% of Air Force Academy graduates go into Space Force. So that’s about 100, right? If you think about a federal space academy, and the Executive Order talks about this, it says, "Hey, we want to develop a number of career fields,” if you will. Astronauts. It mentions astronauts, civil servants, scientists. OK, talks about engineers. It says entrepreneurs, operators, warfighters. There’s like seven that it mentions, but it’s not limiting it to those. But we don’t think of the Air Force Academy as producing entrepreneurs. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:31 Right. Well, we do a lot, but yeah. Col. Matt Anderson 10:33 We produce some, but that’s not the purpose. That’s not designed for— leaders of character, serving your military, serving your country, warfighters. That’s what we’re chartered with at the Air Force Academy, but so there’s a little different flavor there. And if you think about what is a U.S. Space Academy, what would our majors look like? Take a look at the Merchant Marine Academy. Take a look at the Coast Guard Academy. Merchant Marine Academy is a pretty similar model. You know, civilian-led organization. They have an interesting slant to theirs with the Reserve commission, so you don’t have to go active duty. You could spend that maybe eight years in the reserves. Or about 30% of them go active duty. They choose to do so. But for us, if you’re feeding the organization, just like the Air Force Academy gets to feed the Air Force and Space Force, you get to you get to direct what that curriculum is. It’s your fault if you produce a bad product for your organization, the Air Force or Space Force. NASA, you know, we have a big part of what NASA does is science. There’s human spaceflight. There’s research and technology development, like aeronautics, think X planes, and all the cool things that NASA has worked on before. You know, if we think about the war with Iran right now, stealth technology, F-22 thrust vectoring engines, all those things were born in NASA. Yes, those technologies were born in NASA. So if you want to work on those things, so when we think about the maj

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  Episode #60

  LBL In Case You Missed it Edition

  Aug 25, 202642 min

  "Leadership isn't something any of us ever finishes learning." SUMMARY In this special Long Blue Leadership: In Case You Missed It edition, we return to eight conversations from 2026 and pull some of their most practical lessons: Slow down when pressure says rush, honor your word, separate the person from the performance, ask better questions, protect what matters, adapt to the moment, be the steady hand and notice when someone needs you to act. FEATURED SPEAKERS 00:02:00 - Mitch Torrel ’14: Slow Down to Lead Better 00:06:45 - Jessica Whitney ’10: Honor Your Word 00:11:15 - Joe Bledsoe ’11: Make Feedback Useful 00:15:40 - Jannell MacAulay ’98: Ask Better Questions 00:20:05 - Joel Neeb ’99: Protect What Matters 00:24:30 - Kim Ford ’90: Lead for the Moment 00:29:00 - Mark Michalek ’99: Be the Steady Hand 00:33:30 - Matthew Ayers ’99: Notice and Act THREE LEADERSHIP TRUTHS Truth One: Leadership begins with intention. Slow down enough to think. Protect what matters. Honor your commitments. Don't allow the urgency, distraction or discomfort of the moment to make your decisions for you. Truth Two: Leadership is deeply human. Ask better questions. Give feedback that helps people grow. Adapt your approach. Create the trust and connection that allow people to bring their best. Truth Three: Leadership is something we practice. It's not reserved for extraordinary circumstances. It happens in everyday choices — in how we respond under pressure, how we listen, how we use our time and whether we notice when someone around us needs something we can give. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 - Eight Leaders, Eight Lessons 00:02:00 - Mitch Torrel: Slow Down to Lead Better 00:06:45 - Jessica Whitney: Honor Your Word 00:11:15 - Joe Bledsoe: Make Feedback Useful 00:15:40 - Jannell MacAulay: Ask Better Questions 00:20:05 - Joel Neeb: Protect What Matters 00:24:30 - Kim Ford: Lead for the Moment 00:29:00 - Mark Michalek: Be the Steady Hand 00:33:30 - Matthew Ayers: Notice and Act 00:38:00 - Lessons to Carry Forward CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: ted.robertson@usafa.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ryan Hall | Director: ryan.hall@usafa.org Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: bryan.grossman@usafa.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: wyatt.hornsby@usafa.org ALL PAST LBL EPISODES | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS KEYWORDS Leadership, leadership development, leadership lessons, leadership philosophy, accountability, integrity, adaptability, influence, trust, feedback, active listening, curiosity, focus, composure, resilience, decision-making, leading under pressure, servant leadership, personal growth, leadership in action. The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

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  Episode #59

  The Strength Within - Mitch Torrel ’14

  Aug 11, 202647 min

  Great leaders don’t always have the answers. But they know how to build teams that do. SUMMARY In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, Mitch Torrel ’14 discusses the power of mentorship, constructive feedback, humility and creating an environment where everyone can contribute. His leadership lessons are just as relevant in the boardroom as they are on the battlefield. MITCH TORREL'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Lead Through Fear, Not Around It Even when you’re anxious or scared, keep moving forward and executing the mission; courage is acting despite fear, not waiting for fear to disappear. Trust Your Preparation When you hit uncertainty, fall back on the work you’ve already put in — physical, mental, and technical — rather than spiraling about what’s coming next. Focus on the Team to Get Out of Your Own Head Shifting your attention from your own anxiety to how you can support and elevate others makes hard environments more endurable and improves performance. Discover You Have “More in the Tank” Don’t treat real missions or selections like workouts; push past your comfort ceiling and you’ll find reserves of mental and physical capacity you didn’t know you had. Break Big Fears into Small, Daily Gains You don’t need to be the best today — just better than yesterday; attack weaknesses with small, consistent, incremental progress. Leverage Mentors and Learn Aggressively Assume you’re not the first to face a challenge. Seek out people who’ve done it before and copy their mindset, preparation and frameworks to shorten your learning curve. Make Feedback Normal, Specific, and Frequent Build team habits where everyone gets clear strengths and weaknesses surfaced (even anonymously at first), then use trends in that feedback to drive personal change. Balance Urgency with Deliberate Planning In crises, don’t rush in just because the situation is urgent. Pause to gather facts, build a simple plan and avoid making the emergency worse. Use Your Team’s Brains — Don’t Lead Alone As a leader, your job is to facilitate: Draw out the quiet voices, aggregate the best ideas, and delegate execution rather than trying to be the sole problem-solver. Set Clear Standards and Red Lines Early Explicitly communicate what you will and won’t tolerate so you can enforce discipline fairly and consistently, protecting both people and mission over the long haul. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Opening: Leading Through Fear 00:01:27 – Special Tactics Pipeline: Anxiety, Night Sweats and Uncertainty 00:03:50 – Trusting Preparation and Learning to Hate the Water Less 00:05:40 – Shared Hardship and Team Bonding in the Pipeline 00:07:27 – “More in the Tank”: Rucks, Mental Toughness and Selection 00:11:14 – Learning from Others, Mentorship and Owning Weakness 00:15:36 – Five Traits Torrel Looks for in Leaders 00:19:49 – Feedback Culture, Blind Spots and High-Performing Teams 00:25:34 – Thai Cave Rescue: First Mission and Leading Under Pressure 00:29:59 – New Leaders, Delegation and Facilitating the Team 00:36:34 – Failing, Standards and Command Red Lines 00:40:24 – Advice to Younger Self and Enjoying Each Season 00:43:25 – Transition to Business, Ongoing Service and Final Leadership Charge ABOUT MITCH BIO Mitch Torrel, U.S. Air Force Academy Class of 2014, is a former Division I hockey player, Air Force Special Tactics officer, entrepreneur and founder of Sentry Operations. After beginning his Air Force career in pilot training, Torrel found his calling in special operations, completing the demanding Special Tactics training pipeline and serving in operational and leadership roles. While stationed in Okinawa, Japan, Torrel served as operations officer for the U.S. team supporting the 2018 rescue of 12 young soccer players and their coach from a flooded cave complex in Thailand. The experience, his first operational mission, became one of several defining chapters in a career shaped by high-stakes decision-making, teamwork, resilience and leadership under pressure. CONNECT WITH MITCH LINKEDIN | SENTRY OPERATIONS CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: ted.robertson@usafa.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ryan Hall | Director: ryan.hall@usafa.org Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: bryan.grossman@usafa.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: wyatt.hornsby@usafa.org ALL PAST LBL EPISODES | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS: Guest, Mitch Torrel ’14 | Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:01 Sometimes leadership isn't about eliminating fear; it's about learning how to move forward, even if fear is sitting right next to you. I'm Naviere Walkowicz, Class of ’99. Long Blue Leadership starts now. Today's guest is Mitch Teorrel, 2014 graduate of the Air Force Academy, former Division I hockey player, Air Force special tactics officer, also an entrepreneur near the founder of Century Operations. You know you've had a unique career. In fact, many probably know a lot of your work when it comes to an international rescue event, and we'll talk about that later on. But I think what's most exciting about this time with you, Mitch, is how you continue to lead, but you've done it through what some would call overcoming fear or maybe leading through fear. And so I think we're going to have a fantastic conversation today, and I welcome you to Long Blue Leadership. Mitch Torrel 0:53 Naviere, I appreciate you for having me out. Humbled to get the opportunity to kind of share some stories today, and so I'm looking forward to it. Thank you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:01 Well, thanks for the time. We're going to jump right in with the time that you know when we had a chance to talk, Mitch. It was something that kind of surprised me, and I think others will really appreciate this. You know, when you're going through your Air Force special tactics training to kind of be in that role, you experience like night sweats and literally having to change your clothes at night. And I'm looking across to you. You're not sweating right now. You're looking pretty cool and calm. And so take me back to that experience, and let's just start there. Mitch Torrel 1:28 Yeah, pipeline is a pretty arduous process. It's two years; every day is a grind. It's difficult. You're not really sure what tomorrow holds, and they keep it that way, pretty close hold. You don't know what you got tomorrow. You just know it's going to be an early rise, and it's going to be really physically taxing. It's going to be mentally demanding, and you're not sure if. I think part of the anxiety is, do I mentally have what it takes to withstand and with withhold another day? Do I physically have what it takes to continue to drive on, and I think that unknown, the unknown on what's to come, am I going to be enough? The two years is a selection process, so you're getting assessed and selected every day, and it's a lot of anxiety to take on because you're not sure how you're going to perform. I think a lot of us have such internal pressures on ourselves to perform in and out every day that it makes it very difficult to get out of your mind and not worry about the anxiety of what's coming tomorrow. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:29 Well, it makes me think the closest thing that I can think of right at this moment is you know basic cadet training, which is six weeks, and you just talked about two years of uncertainty and not you know waking up early and not knowing what's next. You know, how did you kind of navigate through that? I think we all know how we navigated through BCT, but I think certainly this is much when it's something that's so enduring. I think that's a different situation. Mitch Torrel 2:51 I think a part of goes back to just trusting in your preparation. Did I do what it took to prepare? And if you did, if you didn't, there's not much you can change the night before, and so trusting in your abilities, your ability to adapt, your ability to withstand. I think I hated the water, and they always told you going through the pipeline. If you don't love the water, you're not going to make it through. And I'm a testament to I hated the water every day, dreaded it almost on a daily basis. But you know, learn to overcome and deal with that anxiety and just pressure that it brought. But every day is an opportunity to kind of build that wall up. Your ability to withstand, your ability to deal with anxiety, your ability to deal with the unknown, and I think the pipeline was a really good opportunity for me to kind of grow. I remember when we were in Mississippi, one of the earlier schools. It's three months. Every day was again very arduous. You didn't know it was coming. Are they going to put us in a pool tomorrow? Am I going to drown? You know, am I going to be able to make it through? Am I going to do a good job of leading the team? I think being able to focus on the team allowed me to not worry about myself and kind of focus on something else. And I think worrying about others allowed me to really make it through some of those arduous times, and that was very helpful to me. I remember I probably took a lot longer to grow to the point where you know you're not worried about tomorrow. I used to have to wake up at night, change my sheets, change what I was wearing, you know, and that happened every night because I would just wake up in a dead sweat and I was soaking wet, and eventually, you know, through exposure and through time, you learn to just exist and not worry about what's coming tomorrow. And it's a constant evolution. You know, that's not to say I don't get anxiety about things that are happening tomorrow today, but you start to learn to head off those thoughts early on and allow yourself to just take what comes tomorrow. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:57 So I'm thinking about you being in those moments, and when you said it was probably later on, I'm curious as how you know that every night you're changing your sheets, you're going through that. But I'm curious, were there others that were experiencing the same thing, or were others even helping you through navigating those thoughts that you had? Mitch Torrel 5:14 I think just being in a team environment makes things so much better. Sharing in in in the suffering, sharing in the stories, and getting to reflect on that. When I look back on the pipeline, what an amazing time and something that I think our entire team looks fondly about. We're very close still, and I think that shared hardship, that shared experience, is something that bonds you together for life. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:41 So that two-year journey, and obviously you graduated and became an Air Force Special Tactics Officer. You know what was, I guess, the moment that it clicked for you. You know, you said you got to that point. Do you remember that day? Do you remember what was different, or you just all of a sudden didn't sweat the same? Mitch Torrel 5:57 I think it probably lasted for me longer than a lot of people, and you know, it seems like I learned a lot of the lessons hard myself. You know, and but I think it's just something that gradually over time, you know, the way I remember it is one day it stopped, but I'm sure it was a little bit more gradual than that. Like I think over time you just learn to just, hey, tomorrow's going to be no different than it was today. Today was fine. We made it through. The team did great. You know, I performed up to my standard, or maybe if I didn't, tomorrow's another opportunity in which I can go back and get after it again. And there's plenty of times where I look back, and I think it's easy to learn and roll when you're being put in those situations each and every day. And so it was a very growth-oriented couple of years for me, and I really enjoyed it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:52 I would have loved to have been working with you on the day after you didn't have to wake up and change the sheets. Whatever you had, you know, you know, you were more alert that day. You actually had better sleep. Mitch Torrel 7:01 Yeah, I think definitely had to drink a substantially less amount of water each night before going to bed. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:09 Oh goodness! Well, let's talk about — I think you know, there was something that you shared before about kind of uncovering in yourself that you had more in your tank than you thought, and I'm curious that that was during pipeline in those moments that were like you know forced experiences, or if you found that at other times when you kind of surprised yourself in learning that about. Mitch Torrel 7:28 I think the entire 10 years was a constant lesson of you've got more in the tank, both physically and mentally. I think when I first decided today, I was going through pilot training, and I just felt like it was more of a hobby than a job. And I got to meet guys in special operations, and was very impressed by the camaraderie, by the caliber of guys that were there. And to me, it was like a hockey team, and I missed that. I missed that group because you wanted to be a pilot first, correct? Is that what you're planning? Yeah, I think my family wanted me to be a pilot. I think they kind of pushed me that direction. I always enjoyed flight, you know. But for me, I just thought that some of my skills and abilities would better translate, and I would have a more fulfilling career, getting to be around you know that type of environment. And I think too, there's always you know, can I make it through the training? Do I have what it takes? You know, what will I learn about myself? And so that was a little bit of kind of just the unknown was alluring, you know. But I think there's just so much every day. Where I remember one of the first selection events, you do a long ruck event, and leading up to training, I was so focused on passing the initial fitness test to just start the assessment that I didn't rock, I didn't do underwater stuff. I was just focused on can I do push-ups? Can I do pull-ups? Can I do the 3-mile run? You know, and that took all my time and energy. And when I got to the ruck, it's unknown time, unknown distance, and they just tell you to go. And I remember I was like, all right, I'm going to treat this like a workout, and I'm going to run for a couple minutes, and then I'll walk for a few minutes, and I'll run for a couple minutes, and that'll help get me through. And I remember Master Sergeant came up to me, and he's like, “Why, why are you walking? And I remember being embarrassed at that moment, where it's do I not have it in the tank where I could have just been running this whole time? Do I want it enough where I can just dig a little bit deeper and showcase that? And I remember that fed me through the next two years, where it's like, do I have the mental hardness? Do I have the toughness? Have I prepared physically, you know, for these events? And so I think that was kind of a good wake-up call. Where it's not a workout, you know, what do you have left in the tank? And I think throughout two years there, went through another direction halfway through my career, and that was another opportunity to kind of dig in the dig in the tank a little bit. Did you approach that one differently? I did, and very proud of you know what I had learned throughout the years, what I was able to showcase. We did a much longer rec event, and I ran the whole thing, and was pretty proud of myself about that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:22 What a fantastic example! Because I'm thinking about you know in in in our work and our profession, we do we think about how can I create something to be distinct, right? How can I do something for the long haul? But you're right. If we don't, if we aren't thinking about how can we perform at our best as part of that, you know, that that equation, then we might not even get to the long haul, right? And so I think that's really powerful that you kind of shared, you know, giving your all and realizing that there was more in there than you originally were trying to like, you know, save. Yeah. Wow, that's a really cool story. I bet there are many examples of that. It was quite. Oh my Did you see others? You know, as you had these moments where you kind of learned these things about yourself, and obviously, I think you know in hockey you probably saw this as well. But have you been able to pull others along with you in these experiences that you've had that you've seen? Maybe others are struggling the same way. Mitch Torrel 11:15 I think everybody struggles in different areas, especially in the pipeline. You're learning a lot of different skill sets. You're working on a lot of different things. Cardio is a part of it. Strength is a part of it. Determination. I mean, just — and there's so much. I think you pick up some really good traits from others. Hey, I really like what you're doing, or how you having such success, or how do you navigate this portion? I was always terrible in the water, bad swimmer, horrible underwater. I think when I went through initial selection, somebody pulled me out of the pool after we did underwaters, which is you go down, do a completely underwater, you know, swim underwater, swim underwater for the distance of the pool, and then come back up at a 45-degree angle. And I remember one of the cadre. He pulled me out of the pool, and he said, "You are terrible. Like I wanted to pass out watching you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:22 And you're like, "Thank you for that feedback. Mitch Torrel 12:08 And so it's getting with people who are really good at it and getting advice. I think something throughout my career that I've been very blessed to have is really good mentorship. And you're typically not the first one to go through a process, find a new job, you know, and having a good network of people who, hey, how did you prepare? What set you up for success, or especially in business now, it's a completely new world for me. And having mentors who are able to help think of it this way, or there's a better way to orient your situation, or prepare yourself, and that's really important to surround yourself with people who, you know, are able to elevate you, make you rethink kind of your approach to things, and then give you tips and advice. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:52 So I have to ask, do you like the water today? Mitch Torrel 12:54 I like being on the water, you know, on a boat, you know? Just hanging out. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:59 There’s some material between you and the water, so that leads me to this question. I know that was a little comical, but I'm curious when someone, as that's you know a developing leader or wherever they're at in their leadership journey, if they really want to be part of something, but there is something that is fundamentally part of that that they just don't like or they're just not good at, what would be the advice you give them? Because you know some people might be like, I just hate that so much, I won't pursue the thing that I love because that component's in there. Mitch Torrel 13:28 I think there's kind of two factors in that. If you hate something so much that you know in your heart that it's not something that you can overcome or you want to deal with on a day-to-day basis, then then maybe that that's not worth you know getting through. But I would also argue that until you give yourself the opportunity to progress and grow and learn to get through whatever that difficulty or whatever that is that you don't like, you won't know. And I think there's a lot of ways to incrementally. You don't have to be the best swimmer today. You just have to be a little bit better than you were yesterday, and I think that was something that we and our team learned throughout the pipeline. Is hey, you don't have to be the best at everything today, but everything that you do today is j

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  Episode #58

  Ordinary Actions: Extraordinary Leadership - Matthew Ayers ’99

  Jul 21, 202643 min

  “The people you're trying to lead may become your greatest teacher.” SUMMARY Matthew Ayers ’99 believes leadership isn't about having all the answers. It’s about listening, learning and serving with joy. Hear how experiences at the U.S. Air Force Academy, on a U.N. peacekeeping mission and leading Dream Centers of Colorado Springs transformed his understanding of leadership. MATTHEW'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP LESSONS 1. Leadership Begins with Ordinary Acts Matthew's grandfather didn't set out to do extraordinary things—he simply noticed people, asked questions, and invited them in. Great leadership often begins with small acts of compassion that have lifelong impact. 2. Lead with Joy One of the defining characteristics of Matthew's grandfather was his joy. Even in difficult circumstances, he demonstrated that joy isn't the absence of hardship—it's a choice that gives others hope and the courage to move forward. 3. Stay Curious About People Matthew learned that leadership starts by genuinely wanting to know people and understand their stories. Curiosity builds trust, broadens perspective, and opens the door to meaningful relationships. 4. Integrity Is Lived, Not Signed His experience during a United Nations peacekeeping mission revealed that values aren't proven by an oath—they're revealed in everyday decisions. Leadership requires the courage to live your principles, even when circumstances become complicated. 5. Influence Doesn't Require Authority Serving alongside people outside his chain of command taught Matthew that leadership often happens through relationships rather than rank. Quiet, consistent influence can move an organization—and a mission—forward one conversation at a time. 6. Presence Is Sometimes the Greatest Gift Whether comforting cadets during tragedy or supporting people in crisis, Matthew discovered that leaders don't always need the perfect words. Simply showing up and being present can have a lasting impact. 7. Listen Before You Lead Matthew's work reinforced that the people closest to the problem often hold the clearest vision for the solution. Leaders who listen deeply make better decisions because they're willing to learn before they act. 8. Let Others Become Your Teachers One of the most powerful themes of the episode is that leadership is not about always being the teacher. Matthew believes the people we serve—and the people we lead—often become our greatest teachers if we're humble enough to learn from them. 9. Transformation Happens Through Action Leadership isn't mastered in a classroom alone. Matthew reminds us that principles become convictions only when we wrestle with them in real life, applying them through service, relationships, and everyday decisions. 10. Leave People Better Than You Found Them Looking back on his grandfather's influence, Matthew's own leadership philosophy comes into focus: serve others with humility, model joy, remain teachable, and help people flourish. The greatest legacy a leader leaves is the positive impact they have on the lives of others. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Opening: Sometimes the Greatest Teachers Aren't the Ones We Expect 00:00:53 – Meet Matthew Ayers, USAFA Class of 1999 00:01:38 – The Story That Changed Everything: Grandpa, Joy & Two Strangers 00:08:47 – Justice Begins at Home: Lessons Passed from One Generation to the Next 00:15:12 – Ethiopia: When Integrity Is Tested in the Real World 00:24:31 – The Difference Between Signing an Oath and Living It 00:31:26 – The Child Who Became the Teacher 00:39:08 – Why Great Leaders Never Stop Being Students 00:45:51 – Leading Through Joy, Compassion & Presence 00:52:37 – Leadership in Practice: Listening Before Leading 00:58:44 – Matthew's Leadership Philosophy 01:03:28 – Advice to His Younger Self 01:06:14 – Final Reflections: Leave People Better Than You Found Them ABOUT MATTHEW BIO Matthew Ayers, USAFA Class of 1999, is the founder and CEO of Dream Centers, a Colorado Springs nonprofit dedicated to serving women, children, and families through comprehensive healthcare, behavioral health services, and transformational housing. Before founding Dream Centers in 2011, Matthew served as an Air Force officer, managed air and space programs, taught at the U.S. Air Force Academy, and deployed as an unarmed military observer with the United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea. A passionate student of leadership, theology, and community development, Matthew believes the most meaningful leadership begins with humility, service, and a willingness to learn from others. Through his work and volunteer service, he continues to champion innovative approaches that strengthen families, empower communities, and create lasting change. Matthew lives in Colorado Springs with his wife, Amber, and their two children, Zeke and Halle Joy. CONNECT WITH MATTHEW LINKEDIN | DREAM CENTERS CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. Ryan Hall | Director: Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org ALL PAST LBL EPISODES | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Matthew Ayers ’99 | Host: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Sometimes the greatest leadership lesson isn't learning how to teach others; it's discovering that the people you're trying to lead may become your greatest teacher. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99 — Long Blue Leadership starts now. Well, welcome. Our guest today is Matthew Ayers, class of ’99. Yes, my classmate. Welcome, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Let me tell you about Matthew from his military service, where he served in international peacekeeping. Then he went into the classrooms of Fairchild Hall, onto leading an organization called Dream Centers, where he's the CEO, really focusing on a vulnerable set of our community. It's such a pleasure to have you here today, Matthew. Matthew Ayers 0:46 Love being here. Thank you, Naviere. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:48 Absolutely. Well, we're going to jump right in because your story is so unique and so personal. I'd like to take us back in time and talk about your grandfather. I know we had some time talking about him, but I think it's well worth that our listeners and our watchers get to know him a little bit more as well. Let's talk about your grandfather and maybe a particular act of courage. Matthew Ayers 1:09 OK, yeah, he's my hero, and I always continue to this day trying to live life like my grandpa. He just was so inspirational in the way he lived, and he's a very relational servant leader. He pastored most of his life in the Pacific Northwest, but his beginnings were in Wuhan, China, where he was born and raised, and moved to the U.S. when he was 15. Got on a back of a cargo ship, and he and his brother John made their way here. He built railroad with the CCC and flipped burgers, put himself through high school, college, seminary, and he's just got an amazing life. But when I got to know my grandpa as a little boy, he was smoking cigarettes like a chimney and in the local bowling league and playing cards with his neighbors. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:01 I can visualize this man. Yes. Yes. Matthew Ayers 2:06 He was just everybody's person, and he could hang out with anyone. No one was a stranger, and he was genuinely curious about everyone he met. And so he just modeled that with such joy. I just grew up thinking I want to be like my grandpa. He's an amazing guy, And so I’ve got unlimited stories about him, about someone that really has left a mark on my life, and I was 11 years old, and we were pretty new, about a year or so into living in central Washington State. And he came to guest preach at a local church there, and when he came to visit, of course, we would always go to a local Chinese restaurant. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:53 And did he say it wasn't as good as when he grew up, though? Matthew Ayers 2:57 It was not nearly as good, but he still enjoyed it. He still would enjoy it wherever he went. And so he disappeared like usual, and we just knew he was back in the kitchen, probably washing dishes, hamming it up with the staff. And soon he comes back out, introducing us to staff, and we have all this free food, and he's best friends with this couple. So we were just this was like a normal experience with Grandpa, but on this particular visit, he had some pretty serious conversations after that with my parents, and he had found out that several of the staff were labor trafficked. They were new immigrants from China, and the next day, he brought me along as a little boy, we go down in our little town into a bag alley, knock on the door of a warehouse, no running water, no electricity, no amenities, dirt floor, and I see the rats running around. I'm like, "What are we doing here?” And we get to sit down with these people who are serving at this restaurant and can't speak English and do not know any way to navigate their situation. And he challenged us as a family. Well, he might have just volunteered us, but it was going to happen one way or another, that this couple ended up moving in with us, and we got to be like family with them, and had the most incredible experiences cross culturally just in our own home, and that was my first, maybe you know, shocking example of just the vulnerability of people in every community. It happens everywhere, but what was even more powerful to me about that, and what stays with me, is just how simple it really was looking back, where he just asked the question, and it seemed like such an ordinary, easy thing that that he made it out to be. And looking back, I'm like, well, that that's not easy for most people, but really, it is an ordinary thing that anyone can do. Naviere Walkewicz 5:07 Ask a question and bring someone in, right? Matthew Ayers 5:10 That's it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:46 I'm thinking about you as an 11-year-old, and you said it was kind of your first real glimpse of that experience. How did that shape you as you grew up? Because they were with you, right? And so, first off, did you did you learn to speak Chinese? Matthew Ayers 5:27 No, I learned a few phrases. I should have though. I remember even the simple things like these cross-cultural miscommunications we had about ruining laundry and just doing things so differently that made us sometimes laugh and sometimes have some pretty tense moments. But it was it was all of us learning together. How do we do this? And I think one of my favorite memories was one of these people — they were they just had this incredible ability to do this unique art form of laying small colored thread, and would take months and hundreds of hours per piece of art, and just the beauty of getting to introduce into this art of her culture that was in particular from this region she was from. So we just, I mean, we had so many rich experiences like that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:29 I can imagine. So taking a leap forward, what was part of your journey that led you to the Academy? And when you went to the Air Force Academy, was your goal in mind to think about how to either participate or engage in things cross culturally, or was that just part of your upbringing and your makeup? Matthew Ayers 6:50 Yeah, I thought you might ask me this, and I have nothing here. Honestly, I saw pictures of the Rocky Mountains. I love the beauty of Colorado. It just seemed magical to me, coming from this little town in central Washington, and I wanted to snowboard, so it came with some, you know, really good university education. It was a win-win. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:13 Yes. So getting into the Academy, you know, obviously drawn by the aesthetics. What about the service in the military do you think really called you? And would you say that started, you know, with your grandfather, or was that something else you saw throughout just your childhood? Matthew Ayers 7:29 My mom and dad modeled it well, of course. My dad found an amazing and safe place in my mom's home, where she grew up in Wenatchee, Washington, and so they really had this model of my grandpa and grandpa Paul and Lydia serving continually, and they modeled that in our home, in our community, in our neighborhood. I mean, from as young as I can remember, my dad was leading leadership camps for high school students in Washington State and doing incredible things to serve. And servant leadership, which is always kind of a part of the conversation. So it was like the water that we got to swim in. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:09 It seems so when you talk about your grandpa and your parents, it feels very warm and comforting and secure. And when I think about our time at USAFA, Matthew, it was — you know while it was, you know, in this ecosystem, and yes, you know, we were growing as leaders, I would say there was chaos around us, you know? How did you navigate that with such a different kind of upbringing, and by what you saw in leadership. Matthew Ayers 8:37 Yep. That is, I think, really insightful, and it's probably — it could be the most powerful part of my growing up, my formation in my family. Because my grandpa, when he did these hard things that were ordinary, but you naturally create friction in these situations where you're serving and helping and bringing cross cultures together and bringing people in need, including us. We needed to be educated in that situation, understanding what was happening in our own community and understanding how to serve. And you don't — there wasn't a formula for that, and we didn't have a lot of coaching or training. Grandpa just pulled us in, and so we learned through doing this kind of life together. And I think that that was the power of it: is that he did it with such joy. So you describe it as this warmth, and absolutely it was. And so having that mindset, I think, built this resilience in us to have joy no matter what the situation was, and to hold those things intentionally. You know, sometimes things are really difficult and sad and sorrowful, but to still be able to carry joy into those situations, you're really able to have that impact on somebody who may need that. So even coming to the Academy and experiencing that, especially the chaos of the first year, it felt like a little bit of a challenge. Like, how do we have joy through this? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:05 Well, I think I would have loved to be in your squadron because it sounds like you would have brought some joy to us for sure. Let's talk about after the Academy. There was a particular time while you were serving, you went on to work in — I think it was 2005 — you were part of a United Nations peacekeeping mission. Can you talk about some of that experience and how it maybe shaped you? Because I think it was a really transformational moment as well in your leadership journey. Matthew Ayers 10:33 It was. It was. I was in the acquisition career field, and so I didn't have much opportunity to go overseas, but although I really wanted to. So this was one of those few things that I could thankfully got some approval from our commander and got to apply for this mission. And in that, I had this experience of coming out of Asmara, Eritrea, and heading down to our team site, which was pretty remote near the border, just south of Eritrea, and in this very small village in a war-torn area, it was completely austere, and you basically, as military observers, you have a team site you run and you kind of manage this area that you observe with daily patrols. And so I got to be in a team site with people from Ghana and South Africa and Bangladesh, and you name it. I mean, we always had new members coming in and out from one of these 41 nations that were there. And when I arrived at the team site the first day, Adahanit was our team cleaner, and so she was hired by the local staff on our team site. And when she literally ran to me, she saw my uniform and the American flag, and she dropped to her knees and just started weeping. And she was telling me how grateful she was that an American was at her team site now, because Americans had treated her and some of her family and friends and people who were living in this village with a little more respect than they were used to, and that was my introduction to this mission, to this team site, and I just thought, “Wow, what did I step into?” Because there are obviously a lot of really interesting dynamics that I didn't necessarily expect that kind of welcome coming in. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:27 We take for granted what seems so normal and usual and expected, right? And so to actually see how what we're expecting can really make a difference to somebody else is really powerful. What was some of that experience like there? Can you talk a little bit more about that mission and really why it, besides that incredible greeting, why it really spoke to you? Matthew Ayers 12:52 What I came to learn over the next six months living in Shiraru was that, you know, we all of us on the mission we had this MOU, kind of a moral obligation that we signed. We had this oath that we gave and communicated. We had a lot of training, extensive training in country, and then when we arrived overseas, and it was so — I think coming from this side, we had these just very clear expectations, and I think also kind of some of the culture that we swim in is filled with moral obligations. Even just our values at the Academy, where we where we were trained, and but it's such a part of American culture. And so what I realized is that although all the soldiers from every nation get to sign this thing and take this oath, it's not necessarily something that was part of the conversations in families growing up, or a part of the water that they swam in. So our day-to-day life there was filled with this tension between what we agreed to do and what was actually happening on the ground, and those things were completely different. So we saw — I mean, I saw two nations get kicked out and dismissed from the mission for starting trafficking rings. I saw two members of our own team site, they ended up running the black market cash exchange for the entire nation of Ethiopia while I was on site. And some of these things I really struggled with. Tried to work with people to help them understand what we were doing is not helpful to locals, and even to the point of bringing some of these things up legally with some of the team at headquarters. But when they're dealing with international trafficking rings, some of those smaller things that were happening at our team site, they just — they didn't even have capacity to deal with. And so that's also tension was like, OK, we have to learn to deal with this on a one-on-one basis in our team site in the middle of several hours' drive away from anyone who has any authority over the space. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:06 Wow! So, how did you learn from that? What did — what changed in you, or what evolved in you? How do you grow as a leader from that? Because that's really powerful when you have a mission, and then you have these competing things happening that sometimes challenge values. Matthew Ayers 15:25 It made life so much more complicated for me. I think I went in — Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:28 Like, “If my grandpa was here, he simplified things really well.” Matthew Ayers 15:33 Right. Exactly. Where is this simple answer? There really wasn't. And I remember sitting in several meetings, both formal and informal, with some of the JAGs, some of the legal team there, and just trying to untangle some of these issues and understand what would be worth our time to bring up, even to the highest le

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