Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani provide different viewpoints and insights on what is really going on in the wealth management industry as well as take an in-depth look at the immense opportunity ahead over the next ten to fifteen years and what firms will need to do to capitalize on it.

Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani is a business podcast hosted by FA Magazine, with 29 episodes on record and a Required Pod Score of 80.

FA Magazine hosts Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani, a business show with 29 episodes published.

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  Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

  If Advisors Don't Offer Estate Planning, Clients Will Leave (Ep. 29)

  Sep 11, 202652 min

  Most American families procrastinate on estate planning—over 50% have no plan at all. But Cody Barbo, founder and CEO of TrustAndWill (the nation's leading digital estate planning platform), reveals why this isn't a knowledge problem. It's an anxiety problem. In this episode of Contrasting Viewpoints, Ray Sclafani and Mark Hurley explore the real opportunity ahead for financial advisors who make estate planning a core service. Cody shares why his startup has helped 1.3 million families—and how he got there by recognizing that clients are worried about money more than ever before. The conversation covers why traditional estate planning failed to solve this problem, how digital platforms change the equation for advisors, and why over 50% of clients would consider switching advisors if their current advisor didn't offer estate planning capability. Whether you're looking to add a competitive service, deepen client relationships, or unlock a new revenue stream, this episode reveals the business case for estate planning in your practice today. About Our Guest: Cody Barbo | Founder & CEO, TrustAndWill Cody Barbo is a serial entrepreneur and founder of TrustAndWill, the nation's leading digital estate planning platform serving 1.3+ million families. With 16 years of entrepreneurial experience and a mission to make estate planning accessible to everyday American families, Cody has built TrustAndWill into a 50+ million dollar revenue business in just seven years, with backing from strategic investors including UBS, Northwestern Mutual, American Express, USAA, and others. Before TrustAndWill, Cody built a hospitality tech platform serving restaurants and hotels, raising millions in venture capital. His personal catalyst for TrustAndWill came in late 2017 when he recognized that millions of Americans know they should address estate planning but continue to postpone—creating both a business opportunity and a human need. Today, 26,000 financial advisors use TrustAndWill as part of their client service delivery, and Cody is focused on continuing to partner with the wealth management industry to solve the estate planning gap. He speaks regularly at industry conferences and contributes research on advisor best practices and client engagement strategies. About Our Hosts: Mark Hurley Mark Hurley is CEO of Digital Privacy and Protection, a cybersecurity specializing in serving clients of financial advisory firms and other professionals. Prior to that, he was CEO of Fiduciary Network, an acquirer of minority interests in RIAs. From 1998 to 2004, he was CEO of Undiscovered Managers, a mutual fund company that was sold to JP Morgan Asset Management. He began his career as an investment banker in the financial services division of Goldman Sachs, where he specialized in asset management. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and holds an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. To learn more about Mark Hurley and Digital Privacy and Protection visit dpripro.com Ray Sclafani Ray Sclafani is the Founder and CEO of ClientWise, a premier business and executive coaching firm serving financial advisors, advisory teams, and wealth management leaders nationwide. A recognized authority on advisory firm growth, leadership, succession, and enterprise development, Ray brings 20+ years of experience in financial services, including a distinguished tenure at AllianceBernstein where he served as one of the company's top sales professionals and executive leaders. As a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) and Master Certified Neuro-Linguistic Programmer, Ray has coached many of the industry's top-performing advisory firms and teams, including those at Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, LPL, Raymond James, Ameriprise, and Northwestern Mutual. He is the host of the Building the Billion Dollar Business podcast, co-host of Contrasting Viewpoints published by Financial Advisor magazine, and author of You've Been Framed (Wiley, 2015). Ray's thought leadership and impact have been recognized through multiple 2026 awards: Finalist for Chief Executive Officer of the Year at the Wealth Management Industry Awards, Finalist for Thought Leader of the Year in the Advisory Support Platform Category at the ThinkAdvisor Luminaries Awards, and Top Financial Advisor Coaching Service 2026 from Financial Services Review. To learn more about Ray Sclafani and ClientWise visit www.clientwise.com

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  Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

  Why Bigger Deals Actually Get Worse featuring David Grau Jr. (Ep. 27)

  Jul 20, 202643 min

  If you're considering a merger, acquisition, or sale in the next five to ten years, this episode will challenge everything you think you know about valuations and deal structures in wealth management. David Grau Jr., founder and CEO of Succession Resource Group debates a critical question: Does bigger always mean better in M&A? Ray Sclafani and Mark Hurley explore the hard data behind deal multiples, the real economics of private equity partnerships, and why advisors are increasingly pursuing strategic mergers to achieve relevance rather than simply exit. David's core insight disrupts a widely held belief in the industry. While headlines tout 20+ times EBITDA multiples for advisory practices, the actual transaction data tells a different story. Sustainable multiples cluster around 8-10 times EBITDA, and deals that appear to offer higher valuations often shift risk and illiquidity to sellers through rolled equity and earn-out structures. This means you could be "paid back with your own money" rather than receiving the clean exit you imagined. The episode digs into why margin expansion doesn't happen as expected when firms scale, why private equity may be a "recruiting deal" disguised as a liquidity event, and what the real inflection point looks like for successful exits. Whether you're building a firm to sell or to endure, this conversation will give you the framework to evaluate your options with clear eyes. David reveals what he's actually seeing in the deal market through the term sheets on his desk, the compensation structures that trap sellers, and the demographic realities forcing advisors to think about succession now rather than later. Ray and Mark challenge him on everything, making for the kind of raw, unfiltered discussion that makes this podcast essential listening for advisors thinking about their firm's future. About Our Guest: David Grau Jr., MBA is founder and CEO of Succession Resource Group (SRG) , a specialized M&A and succession consulting firm serving advisory firms and their owners. With a deep background in advisory firm transactions and valuations, David has become one of the industry's leading voices on M&A strategy, succession planning, and the real economics of firm consolidation. Before launching SRG, David served as the leading M&A consultant for a prominent succession planning firm to RIAs, where he developed and led numerous programs and advised hundreds of advisory firm leaders on transaction strategy. His expertise spans valuations, merger structuring, and helping firms navigate the tension between growth, profitability, and succession, particularly the choice between scaling internally or pursuing strategic partnerships. David is a published author, accomplished speaker, and has been featured in dozens of industry publications. About Our Hosts: Mark Hurley Mark Hurley is CEO of Digital Privacy and Protection, a cybersecurity specializing in serving clients of financial advisory firms and other professionals. Prior to that, he was CEO of Fiduciary Network, an acquirer of minority interests in RIAs. From 1998 to 2004, he was CEO of Undiscovered Managers, a mutual fund company that was sold to JP Morgan Asset Management. He began his career as an investment banker in the financial services division of Goldman Sachs, where he specialized in asset management. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and holds an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. To learn more about Mark Hurley and Digital Privacy and Protection visit dpripro.com Ray Sclafani After 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray Sclafani founded and heads ClientWise, the premier coaching and training company exclusively serving the financial services industry. Ray’s passion for serving leaders, advisors, and companies in the financial services sector is reflected in ClientWise and its unique coaching programs and team of credentialed coaches that help advisors and companies find the next level of professional excellence and financial success with greater focus and ease. Ray’s experience as a seasoned specialist in coaching and training in the financial sector mirrors his long and profitable history in the industry. In his 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray was one of the company’s top sales professionals and executive leaders. His knowledge of how to create and execute on highly successful sales plans and build long lasting client connections was later utilized as founder and Managing Director of the Advisor Institute at AllianceBernstein. As a complement to his coaching skills, he also holds a Master’s Certification in Neuro-Linguistics from the International Association for Neuro-Linguistic Programming and has participated in The Strategic Coach® Program for 17 years. Ray’s book, You’ve Been Framed: How to Reframe Your Wealth Management Business and Renew Client Relationships, was published by Wiley in 2015. Ray holds a BA from Baylor University. He lives in Flower Mound, Texas with his wife and true life partner, Beth. Their two sons and Beth continually inspire his work and his passion for excellence. To learn more about Ray Sclafani and ClientWise visit www.clientwise.com

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  Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

  Why Team Liftouts Have Never Been More Desirable with Allan Starkie (Ep. 26)

  Jul 16, 202656 min

  The talent war in wealth management is intensifying. Massive consolidation has eliminated C-suite roles while creating explosive demand for advisors and teams that bring clients. Team liftouts have become more desirable than ever, but the economics, legal complexity, and retention challenges are reshaping how firms recruit, retain, and compensate talent. In this episode of Contrasting Viewpoints, Ray Sclafani and Mark Hurley are joined by Allan Starkie of Knightsbridge Advisors to discuss what's really happening in the battle for talent. The conversation explores team liftout pricing (from 3x revenues to 10x EBITDA), the shift from wirehouse dynamics to RIA equity economics, the portability analysis that determines success, and the legal strategies advisors and firms are using to compete. Allan shares insights from placing 47 team liftouts in the last five years and explains why 90%+ of his placements stick—while most others fail. Whether you're a firm trying to win talent, an advisor evaluating a move, or a CEO building retention strategy, this episode offers practical guidance on separating hunted business from handed business, understanding real client portability, and building the cultural fit that determines whether a move succeeds. The best decision makers start with a simple question: Are your clients loyal to you, or to your institution? This episode helps you answer it. About Our Guest: Allan R. Starkie, Ph.D., is Managing Partner of Knightsbridge Advisors and one of the most respected executive recruiters in wealth management. With more than 25 years of experience in retained search, M&A consulting, and succession transitions, Allan has become the go-to advisor on talent movement, recruiting economics, and retention strategy for elite RIAs and wealth management firms across the country. A West Point graduate and former Green Beret and Army Intelligence officer, Allan brings a unique perspective shaped by work at the Pentagon, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the C-suite. He holds an MBA from Harvard Business School, a Master's degree in Strategic Intelligence, and a Ph.D. in Business from Oxford. He is a published author, international business advisor, and Adjunct Professor at LIU Post. Through Knightsbridge, Allan sees the full landscape of advisor movement: who's leaving, who's staying, which firms are overpaying, and which are quietly becoming talent magnets. His firm has executed 47 team liftouts in the last five years and maintains industry-leading retention—90%+ of placements stick beyond three years, far outpacing the broader market. This episode draws on those frontline insights to help advisors and firms navigate one of the most competitive talent markets in wealth management history. About Our Hosts: Mark Hurley Mark Hurley is CEO of Digital Privacy and Protection, a cybersecurity specializing in serving clients of financial advisory firms and other professionals. Prior to that, he was CEO of Fiduciary Network, an acquirer of minority interests in RIAs. From 1998 to 2004, he was CEO of Undiscovered Managers, a mutual fund company that was sold to JP Morgan Asset Management. He began his career as an investment banker in the financial services division of Goldman Sachs, where he specialized in asset management. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and holds an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. To learn more about Mark Hurley and Digital Privacy and Protection visit dpripro.com Ray Sclafani After 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray Sclafani founded and heads ClientWise, the premier coaching and training company exclusively serving the financial services industry. Ray’s passion for serving leaders, advisors, and companies in the financial services sector is reflected in ClientWise and its unique coaching programs and team of credentialed coaches that help advisors and companies find the next level of professional excellence and financial success with greater focus and ease. Ray’s experience as a seasoned specialist in coaching and training in the financial sector mirrors his long and profitable history in the industry. In his 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray was one of the company’s top sales professionals and executive leaders. His knowledge of how to create and execute on highly successful sales plans and build long lasting client connections was later utilized as founder and Managing Director of the Advisor Institute at AllianceBernstein. As a complement to his coaching skills, he also holds a Master’s Certification in Neuro-Linguistics from the International Association for Neuro-Linguistic Programming and has participated in The Strategic Coach® Program for 17 years. Ray’s book, You’ve Been Framed: How to Reframe Your Wealth Management Business and Renew Client Relationships, was published by Wiley in 2015. Ray holds a BA from Baylor University. He lives in Flower Mound, Texas with his wife and true life partner, Beth. Their two sons and Beth continually inspire his work and his passion for excellence. To learn more about Ray Sclafani and ClientWise visit www.clientwise.com

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  Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

  Before You Chase the Multiple feat. Wayne Hewett (Ep. 25)

  Jun 5, 202646 min

  Valuations are high. Private equity capital continues to flood the market. Advisory firm owners are hearing about eye-popping multiples and wondering if now is the time to sell, acquire, or bring on a partner. In this episode of ContrastingViewpoints, Ray Sclafani and Mark Hurley are joined by Wayne Hewett of Live Oak Bank to discuss what advisors should consider before chasing a headline valuation. The conversation explores the role of debt versus equity, internal succession planning, next-generation ownership, and the importance of understanding your firm's growth story before making a major capital decision. Wayne shares lessons from working with advisory firms across the country and explains why the best decisions start with a simple question: What's your why? Whether you're planning for succession, evaluating acquisition opportunities, or exploring growth capital, this episode offers practical guidance for advisors who want to build enterprise value intentionally. Wayne Hewett is a Senior Loan Officer in Investment Advisory Lending at Live Oak Bank . With more than 20 years of experience in financial services, including running his own advisory practice and consulting on succession and acquisitions, Wayne helps advisory firms navigate growth, ownership transitions, and access to capital. About Our Hosts: Mark Hurley Mark Hurley is CEO of Digital Privacy and Protection, a cybersecurity specializing in serving clients of financial advisory firms and other professionals. Prior to that, he was CEO of Fiduciary Network, an acquirer of minority interests in RIAs. From 1998 to 2004, he was CEO of Undiscovered Managers, a mutual fund company that was sold to JP Morgan Asset Management. He began his career as an investment banker in the financial services division of Goldman Sachs, where he specialized in asset management. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and holds an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. To learn more about Mark Hurley and Digital Privacy and Protection visit dpripro.com Ray Sclafani After 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray Sclafani founded and heads ClientWise, the premier coaching and training company exclusively serving the financial services industry. Ray’s passion for serving leaders, advisors, and companies in the financial services sector is reflected in ClientWise and its unique coaching programs and team of credentialed coaches that help advisors and companies find the next level of professional excellence and financial success with greater focus and ease. Ray’s experience as a seasoned specialist in coaching and training in the financial sector mirrors his long and profitable history in the industry. In his 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray was one of the company’s top sales professionals and executive leaders. His knowledge of how to create and execute on highly successful sales plans and build long lasting client connections was later utilized as founder and Managing Director of the Advisor Institute at AllianceBernstein. As a complement to his coaching skills, he also holds a Master’s Certification in Neuro-Linguistics from the International Association for Neuro-Linguistic Programming and has participated in The Strategic Coach® Program for 17 years. Ray’s book, You’ve Been Framed: How to Reframe Your Wealth Management Business and Renew Client Relationships, was published by Wiley in 2015. Ray holds a BA from Baylor University. He lives in Flower Mound, Texas with his wife and true life partner, Beth. Their two sons and Beth continually inspire his work and his passion for excellence. To learn more about Ray Sclafani and ClientWise visit www.clientwise.com

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  Contrasting Viewpoints with Mark Hurley and Ray Sclafani

  The Case for a Digital Workforce in Wealth Management with Andrei Pop (Ep. 24)

  Apr 17, 202656 min

  Ray Sclafani and Mark Hurley cover a full slate of industry news before sitting down with Andrei Pop, Founder and CEO of Humanity Labs. They open with a surge in cybersecurity breaches hitting major wealth management firms, the growing liquidity risks inside private credit portfolios, the ongoing war for advisor talent and the limits of non-compete enforcement, and the under appreciated challenge of serving clients who are struggling emotionally in retirement. They also weigh in on Robinhood's push upmarket and take a hard look at whether a high-profile Vanguard investment in a small startup deserves the dramatic headlines it's getting. In the main segment, Andrei Pop joins to make the case for a fundamentally different operating model in wealth management — one built around a managed digital workforce that handles client onboarding, compliance, reporting, billing and more, freeing human talent to focus on what actually differentiates a firm. Ray and Mark push back on cost, control, scalability and who this model really works for, making for one of the more honest conversations the industry is having right now about where AI is actually headed. Andrei Pop is the founder and CEO of Humanity Labs, where he partners with leading wealth management firms to transform their operating models through a managed digital workforce. Before Humanity Labs, Andrei founded Human API in 2014, building it into the nation's largest real-time health data network with over 280 million connected lives and used by eight of the ten largest insurers in the country. Human API was acquired by LexisNexis in 2024, where Andrei served as General Manager before launching Humanity Labs in 2025. He has spent his career building companies at the intersection of AI and highly regulated industries, and brings that experience directly to the unique compliance, scale and operational challenges facing wealth management firms today. About Our Hosts: Mark Hurley Mark Hurley is CEO of Digital Privacy and Protection, a cybersecurity specializing in serving clients of financial advisory firms and other professionals. Prior to that, he was CEO of Fiduciary Network, an acquirer of minority interests in RIAs. From 1998 to 2004, he was CEO of Undiscovered Managers, a mutual fund company that was sold to JP Morgan Asset Management. He began his career as an investment banker in the financial services division of Goldman Sachs, where he specialized in asset management. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and holds an M.B.A. from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. To learn more about Mark Hurley and Digital Privacy and Protection visit dpripro.com Ray Sclafani After 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray Sclafani founded and heads ClientWise, the premier coaching and training company exclusively serving the financial services industry. Ray’s passion for serving leaders, advisors, and companies in the financial services sector is reflected in ClientWise and its unique coaching programs and team of credentialed coaches that help advisors and companies find the next level of professional excellence and financial success with greater focus and ease. Ray’s experience as a seasoned specialist in coaching and training in the financial sector mirrors his long and profitable history in the industry. In his 20 years at AllianceBernstein, Ray was one of the company’s top sales professionals and executive leaders. His knowledge of how to create and execute on highly successful sales plans and build long lasting client connections was later utilized as founder and Managing Director of the Advisor Institute at AllianceBernstein. As a complement to his coaching skills, he also holds a Master’s Certification in Neuro-Linguistics from the International Association for Neuro-Linguistic Programming and has participated in The Strategic Coach® Program for 17 years. Ray’s book, You’ve Been Framed: How to Reframe Your Wealth Management Business and Renew Client Relationships, was published by Wiley in 2015. Ray holds a BA from Baylor University. He lives in Flower Mound, Texas with his wife and true life partner, Beth. Their two sons and Beth continually inspire his work and his passion for excellence. To learn more about Ray Sclafani and ClientWise visit www.clientwise.com

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